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Author Topic: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.  (Read 4548 times)

Theodoros

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Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« on: September 08, 2014, 04:46:53 pm »


http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h5d-cmos-multi-shot.aspx

 Personally, I see a downgrade from the previously used CCD sensor on the H4-D50/D200MS, because:
A. There is no benefit or different look to colour, since the purpose of buying MS is to get "true colour" anyway.
B. The sensor pixels are considerably smaller.
C. The sensor is said to be considerably less capable with View/tech cameras than the previous one.

...by the way, the new backs are the only solution in production from Hassy if one wants to buy MS (from Hasselblad) and they are only offered as complete camera system. I believe there will be a party in Sinar's premisses to celebrate for Hasselblad's recent decision... It was about time, up to now there was only P1 celebrating every time a "wise" decision for a product was made by Hasselblad!  :'(

Never the less, there is high quality LV focusing for the first time on an Imacon/Hasselblad MS back...
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Quentin

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 04:54:06 pm »

I wonder how many 50mp multishot cameras were made and sold?
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

MrSmith

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 05:09:07 pm »

Just buy a couple of older multi shot backs as spares, they should be cheaper now as they are old technology.
problem solved.
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 06:00:15 pm »

I wonder how many 50mp multishot cameras were made and sold?
I believe quite some... Never the less, MS sales are certainly less after they stopped making the CF backs. The reason is partly that they lost all customers that were using other cameras than H... (they even lost those who were using V!!! - one may wonder of how bright same marketeers are...), partly that quality can't improve further than older backs since all of them are true colour and partly because pixels are shrinking in modern sensors which affects quality negatively. That's why some swear by the old Kodak sensors that can do 16x still on huge pixels.
You see, if one wants a huge file for a project with MS, he can stitch files and have any resolution he wants since things are still...

Let me give you an example... in a few weeks I'll have to shoot a huge 230 years old hand made map of 3.7wx5 meters height in size, I went to inspect the space available and came down to the following... I'll position the Fuji GX680 against the centre of it with the 210mm lens on it and turn the 528c vertically, at a distance that the area it will cover will be the centre 1/9th + 20% of the whole map area... then I'll split the map in 9 equal areas (3 rows in 3 columns) and spot the centre of each of them... then I'll shoot the centre and do the rest by shifting the lens to centre each of the eight images left + 20% area at f16... Using a 210mm lens of much bigger image circle than the 37x49 area of the back at f16, will eliminate any chance for presence of vignetting in the image and the movement will be minimal in the image circle, more than that, I won't be reducing lens resolution as it would happen if one would frame the whole map using a view camera and would move the back using the rear standard as to cover the area.
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 06:04:05 pm »

Just buy a couple of older multi shot backs as spares, they should be cheaper now as they are old technology.
problem solved.

+1... That's what most pros do. ...But they are NOT older technology! Not as far as MS is concerned anyway...  :D
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tjv

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 03:31:24 am »

For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
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torger

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 03:45:49 am »

I think they're phasing out the Kodak 50 megapixel sensor, which I suspect is going out of production soon(ish). It's only left in the H5D-50 now.

Kodak that became TrueSense Imaging that became ON Semiconductor has not exactly shown any progress in the large CCD niche since 2008 when the KAF-51000 was launched. That is it's not really only up to Hasselblad.

Of course they could make a multi-shot camera based on a Dalsa CCD instead... but the CMOS has some advantages too, I image that the extremely low noise is a big advantage in the 6-shot-to-200-megapixel interpolation algorithm.

Concerning pixel size it's not just as simple as to look at pixel pitch and say larger means more photons collected. The thing is that the photo-diode does not cover the full surface (and as the Kodak lacks microlenses it does not collect from the full surface either and therefore has about the lowest quantum efficiency you can find on the market today, but that does not really matter for multi-shot as you can just increase exposure). According to sensorgen.info the Kodak has 38000 electrons as full well capacity and a modern CMOS like in the D810 has as much as 78000, ie one stop more despite its smaller pixel pitch. Dalsa with same pixel size as the Kodak (6um) is inbetween at 53000.

The Kodak has some fine advantages such as the light shield and thus strong crosstalk suppression for us tech cam users, but it is aging technology.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 03:59:32 am by torger »
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 05:07:29 am »

For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
They can do one thing right... the one thing they are doing wrong for a decade now... They can listen and act accordingly to the market demand! I hate to see Hasselblad to vanish just because some marketeers that have never exercised photography, want to decide for advanced photographers needs against the photographer's will...

What's to like with their last decade decisions? ...what's to like with the financial position that their own decisions have brought them at? ...what's to like for spending millions on trying to promote APS-c compacts and ask a fortune for it?

Hasselblad has the potential to recover and become stronger than ever IMO... they only have to correct all the mistakes they've done through out the last decade... Which is neither costly or complicated nor difficult to do!

Just some simple moves IMO: 1. Make H4X able to work with older backs from older or modern H bodies additionally to the rest of the makers. 2. Reintroduce the CF series by converting their current backs to stand alone ones.... Done!
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NickT

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 04:00:34 pm »

One hates to feed the trolls but I have been talking to some people who know and the CMOS offering is giving significantly better results than the Kodak ccd especially in multi-shot.
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 04:28:12 pm »

For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
Actually they just did one thing right: http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h5x.aspx love it! ...it was about time! ...one of the things suggested above.  :)
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Quentin

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 04:58:04 pm »

I can't see anyone can spin a negative out of such positive news.   Congrats to Hasselblad, particularly as the H5D camera is well ahead of the competition.
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 05:16:08 pm »

I can't see anyone can spin a negative out of such positive news.   Congrats to Hasselblad, particularly as the H5D camera is well ahead of the competition.
+1. But "congrats"? ...why? They are only redoing right what they were doing wrong for 10 years! I thought "congrats" is for innovation.. not for offering (at last) what others where offering all the time and only after there is a clear danger for disaster. Never the less, it's the first time I've started thinking of changing boats from Contax... thinking of Hassy was out of the question up to now!  8) I keep thinking of the penalty that H3/H3ii/H4 users are going to pay though, them been the only ones not invited... They surely have to come up with a solution for them, even if there is some cost involved.  :)
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tjv

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 03:25:05 am »

How on earth are H3/3DII/4D users disadvantaged? All of a sudden they have a back up body, right?
Some people need to accept the past and move on...
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 04:01:20 am »

How on earth are H3/3DII/4D users disadvantaged? All of a sudden they have a back up body, right?
Some people need to accept the past and move on...
Nope! ....H3/H3Dii & H4 users, are the only ones that don't have a back up body nor they can upgrade to one. Hasselblad must come up with  a solution for them too. Even if that will mean that the back may need some modification under cost.
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tjv

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 03:46:19 pm »

That is indeed crazy  :o
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2014, 09:30:21 am »

That is indeed crazy  :o
It's a part for what was happening up to now for the last 10 years.... From that POV "it's not crazy"... "Crazy" it may was Hasselblad's decisions... This seems to change with H5X and if they decide to provide their backs for other camera makers (like they were doing with the CF backs) and if they additionally provide a solution for the H3/H3ii/H4 owners... "competition" (what competition?) may be under (very) serious danger...  ;) After all, who is P1 if compared with the history and tradition of Hasselblad, or Contax, or Leica, or Sinar, or Zeiss, or anybody else that has more than half a century of dedication into serving photography and photographers?  8)
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 09:35:33 am »

It's a part for what was happening up to now for the last 10 years.... From that POV "it's not crazy"... "Crazy" it may was Hasselblad's decisions... This seems to change with H5X and if they decide to provide their backs for other camera makers (like they were doing with the CF backs) and if they additionally provide a solution for the H3/H3ii/H4 owners... "competition" (what competition?) may be under (very) serious danger...  ;) After all, who is P1 if compared with the history and tradition of Hasselblad, or Contax, or Leica, or Sinar, or Zeiss, or anybody else that has more than half a century of dedication into serving photography and photographers?  8)


I love the tradition and the legacy of achievement these companies have.

I also know that in todays world, what have you done for me lately is more critically relevant than ever.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 10:47:02 am »


I love the tradition and the legacy of achievement these companies have.

I also know that in todays world, what have you done for me lately is more critically relevant than ever.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
+1..... But they have to continue in a fast pace!  ::)
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BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2014, 09:20:47 pm »

For goodness sake, Hasselblad can't do anything right in some peoples eyes can they?
+1
Most of the people who complain about Hasselblad don't actually have one.

I went from a H1 then H2 with PhaseOne back to now an H3DII. The integrated back is a much better combination. So I would happily own a H5.
I use my Canon for what I need it for, but landscapes, portraits etc there is no comparison.
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Theodoros

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Re: Hasselblad's only multishot product is now CMOS.
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2014, 06:11:55 am »

+1
Most of the people who complain about Hasselblad don't actually have one.

How can they have a product that they have much to complain about?  ??? I did't notice any to complain about the H5x... Can you upgrade to an H5x by the way?  :-[


I went from a H1 then H2 with PhaseOne back to now an H3DII. The integrated back is a much better combination. So I would happily own a H5.
I use my Canon for what I need it for, but landscapes, portraits etc there is no comparison.

What about keeping your back and buy an H5? ...can you do that and save a fortune? ...I don't see H3Dii S/H prices up to what they would be for the same camera's quality, if it was a system that one can upgrade parts off...  ;)
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