Epson 7600 for B&W conversion

[geezerhood]

I have a chance to pick up a 7600 for under $300 that is in working condition, all channels functioning, very well cared for.

Intent is for black and white conversion using Jon Cone's inksets though I will probably run some color prints to use up the ink unless I am not pleased with the output. Having been printing on a Canon 8400 I am guessing I won't really like the color results from the 7600?

What are the positives and negatives you could give me for this model?  I have to travel several hundred miles to get it, but there are some nice photo locations on the way so it won't be just a boring drive.

[TylerB]

I can't think of any negatives for that model with Piezography. None of the pesky pressure system problems, and the slightly larger dot size yields good dmax for B&W systems. With 7 shades of gray, you'll never see those dots believe me. I ran a 9600 for years, had it not had so  much use, I wish I still had it, so simple to take care of. Keep humidity normal or higher, keep that capping station and blade clean, don't let it sit for over 2 weeks unused (one week would be better), should be great. Stay in touch with any issues here-
http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/forum.php

Tyler

[Jim Metzger]

I would also consider QTR for B&W. I have not used Cone ink set but hear it is very good.
You can run color and B&W. Epson color inks have lasted me well past their "expiration date".

My 7600 is 13 years old and still going strong.

I would have a replacement  capping station on hand, mine lasted 12 years,  and I use American Inkjet Systems CLF007 cleaning fluid to great effect.

[Paul Roark]

The B&W approaches I'm familiar with (including Eboni-6 carbon -- http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf -- as well as dyes -- http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-2K.pdf [B&W and color]) will also run well in that printer.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/

[geezerhood]

Thanks for the information everyone.

If I ever end up losing a channel (The 7600 has 7), how difficult / expensive is it to switch between glossy and matte black and white printing with only 6 good channels? As I recall reading you need 7 channels for an easy switch. I will most likely being doing non glossy prints 90% of the time.

If the head fails down the road, how difficult is a printhead replacement for the 7600? Are heads available for less than the $585 price for genuine epson head that I found with a googlebing?

Paul, I will check out the Eboni 6 carbon offering. I am new to this so any help / info is appreciated.

Regards,

Don

[Paul Roark]

Don,

For the most general description of Eboni-6, see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf .  100% carbon inksets make the most lightfast digital prints by a significant margin -- an appropriate heir to the traditional processes.  Being a monotone, it's also simple to profile.  Eb6 is also Epson driver compatible, though I almost always use QTR.

If ink cost is an issue, be sure to take a look at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf .  Dilute ink is very expensive water.  If you've ever been a darkroom worker, this ink dilution is not much different from what you've done for years.  When you mix your own, the ink costs drop to the point of being essentially irrelevant.

The one thing I do warn about with Eb6 is that it settles a bit faster than Epson inks in wide format printers.  If the printer has sat for more than a week, I agitate the carts the night before turning the 7800 on.  Note that this is less of a problem than I was having with blended ink (carbon + colors) separating, and all pigments do settle. 

I recommend the standard Epson type of carts, not the funnel fill for third party inks.  I like the idea of no light and air next to the ink.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/

[geezerhood]

Interesting stuff Paul. Thanks for the links. Your system looks like something I would like to try if I end up getting the printer.

Question on moving it - As long as it is kept level and the waste tank isn't so full it will spill, would I be OK transporting it in the back of pickup truck with a shell on it?  What is the worst that could happen if it gets tipped too much or jostled while driving? ( I do have to drive down a fairly steep dirt road to get to my shop, 15 percent grade)

I may not be able to pick it up for several weeks and it is currently just sitting there idle. Should I ask the seller to cover it with a plastic tarp and to run a nozzle check every day to make sure it doesn't dry out? It is in a desert climate. (Hopefully they are willing.)

[Paul Roark]

I've hauled printers in a van with never any issues.  I did hear of one person who had ink run out due to a slope, but I don't know the details.  I would not let it get hot sitting in a closed car/van/truck bed in the sun.

I never take delivery of a printer unless I see a clean nozzle check when I'm there to watch it happen.  So, keeping the machine working until you pick it up is the seller's job. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[TylerB]

I don't want to veer the discussion away from the direction it has taken, I just want to address a specific question you had earlier. The 7600 is a 7 ink printer, you can use a K6 Peizography setup and get great quality, and have the gloss optimizer in your remaining tank. You never have to change black inks back and forth, your procedure is just slightly different, the photo surface prints using a double pass system. I don't want to get into a discussion about the merits of various systems, just wanted to address your question. If you are still interested in a Cone setup, go over this stuff with them for much more reliable info than you can get here. I believe I already gave you a link to a good forum for these issues.

[aaronchan]

I don't want to veer the discussion away from the direction it has taken, I just want to address a specific question you had earlier. The 7600 is a 7 ink printer, you can use a K6 Peizography setup and get great quality, and have the gloss optimizer in your remaining tank. You never have to change black inks back and forth, your procedure is just slightly different, the photo surface prints using a double pass system. I don't want to get into a discussion about the merits of various systems, just wanted to address your question. If you are still interested in a Cone setup, go over this stuff with them for much more reliable info than you can get here. I believe I already gave you a link to a good forum for these issues.

I also want to clarify this:
7 channels, with GO, you mean a K5 system with both MK and PK installed?

[TylerB]

no, they have some K inks that work great with GO on photo surfaces as well as on matte. No K ink swap required. They would be way better at this info than I, with various option suggestions.

[geezerhood]

OK a new twist on this. Found a good condition fully functional HP Z2100 44" for $500. Same travel distance as the Epson 7600.

Would I be able to run a 6 or 7 channel black and white setup on the HP and get the same print quality as with the Epson 7600? If yes, then the 44" is the way I want to go.

[aaronchan]

I'm not sure.
With Paul's formula, actually you can dilute the black and gray ink as many shades as you want.
But the think is how to drive to printer to print with B&W only, that is a software problem,
which I don't think you can do that with HP Z series printers.
I have Ergosoft RIP and I could set my custom channel on my epson x600, x800 and x880 printers
but I can't do that with my Z3200.

aaron

[Ernst Dinkla]

OK a new twist on this. Found a good condition fully functional HP Z2100 44" for $500. Same travel distance as the Epson 7600.

Would I be able to run a 6 or 7 channel black and white setup on the HP and get the same print quality as with the Epson 7600? If yes, then the 44" is the way I want to go.

Main problem is reliable third party cartridge chips for the Z2100. However that might be easier for the Z2100 than for the Z3100/Z3200, I had a bad experience with the chips for the last two that I ordered from a Chinese company something like ....Colorsun...

If loaded with HP Vivera blacks + dilutions of them in the CcMmYKk channels you could use Photoshop curves for the partitioning of the blacks and pack them together with a linearisation curve into a "QTR B&W (RGB) ICC profile". There is a QTR tool to do the linearisation and packing. See similar Paul Roark set ups. It will allow you to use a normal HP Z2100 driver in color mode and create a septone B&W print that way from applications like Qimage Ultimate. It may be harder on Macs these days with the OS interference on all CM steps. This is not a turn key solution though, you have to find your way in creating the right ink mixes and the PS partitioning curves. The ink buffers in the HP heads have to be cleared of the normal inks which will take much time or dirty hands. Nobody went there before you. I only explored the basics of it by converting a CMYK HP Officejet that way and it still works nicely. Some research done with the same idea to convert a Z2100. Though I still wonder if a converted Z2100 will add much to the nice B&W prints I can make with my Z3100 and Z3200, 4 B&W inks on matte, 3 B&W inks on gloss but the extra gloss enhancer comes on top of that. No color inks used in B&W driver mode.

For any easier DIY solution go Epson.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[geezerhood]

For any easier DIY solution go Epson.

Thanks for the info. I suspected as much since I was not seeing any references on the web about converting HP printers to dedicated B&W printing.

[Paul Roark]

While I use HP Z3200 PK and diluted grays in my Epson printers, none of the generic dilution bases or inks I have formulated are appropriate for HP's thermal heads.  The Epson piezo heads are very tolerant of ink variations and easily accommodate HP ink; it does not work the other way around.  The HP thermal heads need some specific ink additives to keep the heads clean, and they are much more sensitive to ink viscosity.  Inks designed for Epson printers probably will not work well in HP printers.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Ernst Dinkla]

While I use HP Z3200 PK and diluted grays in my Epson printers, none of the generic dilution bases or inks I have formulated are appropriate for HP's thermal heads.  The Epson piezo heads are very tolerant of ink variations and easily accommodate HP ink; it does not work the other way around.  The HP thermal heads need some specific ink additives to keep the heads clean, and they are much more sensitive to ink viscosity.  Inks designed for Epson printers probably will not work well in HP printers.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

The inks I used in HP thermal heads (Officejet, CMY dyes, Matte Black pigment) were straight HP Vivera (for Z's thermal heads) pigment MK + PK (cyan channel) and 1/3 (magenta channel) and 1/9 (yellow channel) PK dilutions with the OCP alternative Kodak gloss optimizer also used for thermal heads. I think that the 1/9 dilution channel is now getting issues, after more than 2 years use. That is a two channel head which can be user replaced. It is more likely caused by the absence of membrane pumps in the refillable cartridges than anything else.

It is not that I advocate the use of HP printers for custom B&W ink sets but it is not impossible either. The price of the OCP ink medium was way nicer for me than the price + trouble of purchasing alternatives from the USA or mixing the ink medium from basic components.

Ben in Belgium used an OCP alternative Epson gloss enhancer for his Vivera mixes on an Epson R3000. Not heard about issues on that combination so far.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Paul Roark]

Ernst,

Yes, there probably are fine third party products and even dilution bases that will work with HP.  I just wanted to be sure people understood that the Epson piezo head and HP (and other) thermal head requirements are different. In particular, I didn't want anyone to use the generic bases I formulated and use in a thermal head.   

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[TylerB]

...
I have Ergosoft RIP and I could set my custom channel on my epson x600, x800 and x880 printers
but I can't do that with my Z3200.

aaron

Hi Aaron, if you make a new z3200 environment and select the halftone option at the start, rather than contone, you have all the user options necessary to assign any cartridge position to any color, including up to 7 total blacks and lighter blacks. It's a very intriguing potential setup, considering the remaining tanks for CMY+ options and/or spot colors for hue control, plus GO for photo surfaces. I've had it in mind for some time, but experimenting with diluents etc for now... too much on my plate.