New Epson Pro-printer with highest DMax (P600)

[John Caldwell]

Jim Kasson is hardly overstaying the 900-series head clog issue, irrespective of whether every owner suffers the problem of not. I'll go further than Jim has in saying that if the new printer series does not address the head clog problem, there will be a significant loss of the not-printing-every-day market. If, like Jim say, the new prints solve little other than the clog problem, I'll be a customer. If the All-New ink set makes better looking prints than the 900's do, all the better.

John Caldwell

[Mark D Segal]

After being into this interview and hearing the expression "ALL NEW" for about the umpteenth time in 3 minutes, I switched it off because I got the message: "it's ALL NEW"  :-)

Now that said, and even though I'm from Toronto, not "Missouruh", I gotta see how much better the print quality is from this ALL NEW inkset relative to what I get from my 4900. Deep down below the marketing hype, I expect any improvements to be "incremental" (but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised), and indeed the more important variables will be maintenance and reliability. I must say I'm somewhat puzzled about why Epson would launch this with a 13" model, and not at least a 17". I wonder what the thinking is.

[huguito]

Hi Jim
Do you know if the 9600 has the same type of filter in the dampers?
Mine never clogs but having a car repair and motorsports background, I understand the value of preventive maintenance, those screens look very small.
Thanks

Hugo

[ihv]

This is unfortunately not the case.

The rep in the video interview was little too enthusiastic IMHO about the black saving mode in automated switching, instead of taking the final step to solve the root cause once and for all. I have a bad feeling the same will happen with the future Surecolor 3880.

No round trip times were given either.

..
3.  PK and MK on line all the time, no more switching
..

[jferrari]

Hi Jim
Do you know if the 9600 has the same type of filter in the dampers?
Mine never clogs but having a car repair and motorsports background, I understand the value of preventive maintenance, those screens look very small.

Hi Hugo. To the best of my knowledge the 9600 uses dampers in pairs and each unit does have a filter screen in it. Since the 9600 uses a different print head than the x900 series, I believe the mesh size of the filter screen is larger and therefore is less prone to clogging. That's my story, I'm stickin' with it.    - Jim

[Wayne Fox]

After being into this interview and hearing the expression "ALL NEW" for about the umpteenth time in 3 minutes, I switched it off because I got the message: "it's ALL NEW"  :-)

Now that said, and even though I'm from Toronto, not "Missouruh", I gotta see how much better the print quality is from this ALL NEW inkset relative to what I get from my 4900. Deep down below the marketing hype, I expect any improvements to be "incremental" (but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised), and indeed the more important variables will be maintenance and reliability. I must say I'm somewhat puzzled about why Epson would launch this with a 13" model, and not at least a 17". I wonder what the thinking is.

yeah, the “new” thing got a little old, but the discussion of the blacks, the concept of dyes designed to stay at the top of the resin to increase density, and most importantly  the discussion about the new yellow and substantially increased longevity all sound like a solid improvement, even if they are visually very incremental (and hopefully delivery systems that are more reliable and less prone to missing nozzles/clogs). ( Epson has lagged in the longevity area for too long now).

[John Caldwell]

Yes, it all sounds good, even if the incremental improvements are small, so long as reliability is better. To me it's odd that DMax improvement is presented as though it was the chief complaint with the prior product line, rather that the stuff many of us have been going on about on this forum from a few years now. I can't recall many people spending much time on the print quality issue in a critical way, the yellow longevity issue aside maybe. Even here though, I suspect that a yellow-longevity search would turn up many fewer articles than the clog/air entrainment issue. No disrespect in any way to the valuable work Mark is doing. To the contrary, it's probably human nature to be more focused on the here and now (temporary) issues like clogs, than to be concerned about future investment matters like ink fade; so Mark is leading the adult-end of the conversation (and conservation).

John Caldwell

[Mark D Segal]

When I look at the longevity ratings (Henry Wilhelm) for prints kept in albums or dark storage for an Epson 4900, there seems to be nothing whatsoever to worry about. Some of the ratings for displayed prints, depending on the paper and the display conditions, can come up a bit short, so maybe it is those that these improvements will target.

I agree with others that the main concern raised in the forums is about maintenance and reliability, and we will only know first-hand about that with experience.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

yeah, the “new” thing got a little old, but the discussion of the blacks, the concept of dyes designed to stay at the top of the resin to increase density, and most importantly  the discussion about the new yellow and substantially increased longevity all sound like a solid improvement, even if they are visually very incremental (and hopefully delivery systems that are more reliable and less prone to missing nozzles/clogs). ( Epson has lagged in the longevity area for too long now).

I've seen some prints from the new printer and the increased D-Max can't be described as a small, incremental change. The blacks are much darker than I've seen from any inkjet printer. The Epson representative said that the D-Max was 2,88. I recall measuring a Seagull paper developed in special paper developer and then selenium toned.  The D-Max was 2.4, darker than any other paper that I tested. This was with a semi glossy paper. I hope that the matte papers get a solid increase in their D-Max, as well. And we all long for a better longevity and less clogging, but there only time will tell.

[Wayne Fox]

I’ve been OK with dMax on the papers I use, but I’ll take your word for it ... glad to hear it may be visually more significant than it I might think.

I agree Epson’s biggest problem is on the reliability side, so hopefully the new inks and printers can improve that.

As far as the yellow and longevity, I don’t think dark storage is very relevant, and I haven’t been too worried about it, but they’ve known for a long time the yellow dye was the problem, and I’m glad to see they will be competitive now.

Will be very interested in bringing one into the store and giving it a try ...

[Jim Kasson]

Let's say this printer is everything we hope for, including as reliable as the 7800/9800/3880. Now I'm in a quandary. If I get one, my 4900 will get even less use than it does now, which means it'll clog even worse.

Hmmm...

Jim

[Mark D Segal]

Let's say this printer is everything we hope for, including as reliable as the 7800/9800/3880. Now I'm in a quandary. If I get one, my 4900 will get even less use than it does now, which means it'll clog even worse.

Hmmm...

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'll give you the standard economist's answer (but it's true): your 4900 is a "sunk cost". Look FORWARD at INCREMENTAL costs and benefits, not all of which are monetary.

[Jim Kasson]

I'll give you the standard economist's answer (but it's true): your 4900 is a "sunk cost". Look FORWARD at INCREMENTAL costs and benefits, not all of which are monetary.

Right. If the new printer replaced the 4900, that would be the case for sure. But since the new printer can't do C-size images (my most common size), I have to continue to use the 4900, which will be acting up even more than it is now because of its need for attention. OK, I'm anthropomorphizing...

Jim

[Mark D Segal]

As long as you run a couple of sheets every few days that exercise all the channels it will remain as operational as it can be. Before jumping into the new machine however, I would really like to see how visible the difference of DMax is in reality.

[BernardLanguillier]

Jim Kasson is hardly overstaying the 900-series head clog issue, irrespective of whether every owner suffers the problem of not. I'll go further than Jim has in saying that if the new printer series does not address the head clog problem, there will be a significant loss of the not-printing-every-day market. If, like Jim say, the new prints solve little other than the clog problem, I'll be a customer. If the All-New ink set makes better looking prints than the 900's do, all the better.

My view as well. I print more and more rarely and the 9900 is a nightmare for such usage patterns.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Goldhammer]

The big issue in my mind is whether Epson will move this new ink technology into the 3880.  Based on all the anecdotal reports here (and my personal experience) the 3880 is just a great 17 inch wide printer.  I still print on matte paper and a better Dmax with is appealing as is better yellow stability.  One would think that Epson could role the new ink technology out to the 3880 accompanied by a driver update that addresses any issues with ink application.

[John Caldwell]

Alan, My take on Michael's interview with Epson's spokesperson did convey that the All-New intent was to move the new topology into the professional series machines. I walked away with the feeling that this A3 machine, with the built-in CD printer, was the consumer entry to be followed by the LF and 3800-sized machines using the same ink/head topology. Perhaps I'm just being hopeful, but Epson would probably not reinvent an ink series without the plan of moving the inks into a whole range of printers. Isn't there talk that the Stylus Pro name is going away, as a further sign of Epson's intent?

John Caldwell

[Mark D Segal]

The big issue in my mind is whether Epson will move this new ink technology into the 3880.  Based on all the anecdotal reports here (and my personal experience) the 3880 is just a great 17 inch wide printer.  I still print on matte paper and a better Dmax with is appealing as is better yellow stability.  One would think that Epson could role the new ink technology out to the 3880 accompanied by a driver update that addresses any issues with ink application.

Hi Alan, I was a little surprised Epson would have chosen the 13 inch format for rolling out such a new technology - surely they have their reasons, I just don't know them. Regardless, I would hesitate to believe the adaptation to a 3880 would be as easy as you suggest. I would expect the tnk delivery system and printhead may need to be varied depending on the chemical properties of the inks and the sequences in which they need to be applied.

[John Caldwell]

Yes, Mark. I thought the whole new thing was just that - new inks and delivery system. Didn't you take that away from Michael's interview?

[Stefan Ohlsson]

Perhaps I'm just being hopeful, but Epson would probably not reinvent an ink series without the plan of moving the inks into a whole range of printers. Isn't there talk that the Stylus Pro name is going away, as a further sign of Epson's intent?

Considering the huge investment it is to develop the new printer head that they use in this printer, I would be extremely surprised if they didn't use it in the next generation of LFP. But I don't think we will see the new printers next week. I think what you see is a public beta test, a bit more complicated with hardware. When they see how this printer has been received they can start to roll out the new larger printer. I hope to replace my Epson 11880 during 2015.