Auto mode on Flashes when changin distance to subject

[orc73]

Hi

I'm looking for some basic information on the Auto mode on flashes. All the manuals I read do not provide the information:

IS A FLASH IN AUTO MODE ABLE TO AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST POWER IF I CHANGE THE DISTANCE TO THE SUBJECT?
(Even if it's not electronically made for that specific camera)

My Hasselblad does not have a great choice of TTL flashes, I do work in M with on camera flash, but when I go closer or further away from the subject I always need to change power.
I do not have a flash to test this, as my Sony 60M flashes do not have an auto mode(!).
I'm looking for a on camera flash solution with Hasselblad, maybe with a Nissin MG8000 or Canikon flash in Auto mode.
Quantum or Metz have on camera TTL flash solutions for about 1000USD, and some people say they use it in auto rather then ttl.
So I might as well use an unsupported device, if auto mode is what goes.

thanks and best regards

[elliot_n]

Yes.

[Rhossydd]

I'm looking for a on camera flash solution with Hasselblad, maybe with a Nissin MG8000 or Canikon flash in Auto mode.

I doubt the automation modes on Nikon or Canon flashguns (or those designed for them like the Nissan) will work on any other camera as a lot of the cleverness is done in the camera body.

Older auto flashes were a lot dumber, but did the work themselves. So you just set a power level on the flash, set the correct f stop for that power level at your chosen ISO and the flashgun would adjust it's output to give the correct exposure as distance(& subject ?) changed. All within it's specified operating range.

So I'd guess you'll either need an old 'dumb' (non TTL) auto flash or something that is specific for the Hasselblad if you want TTL control.

[elliot_n]

AFAIK, all Nikon pro flashguns have a non-TTL Auto mode, and will therefore work on any camera.

[Rhossydd]

AFAIK, all Nikon pro flashguns have a non-TTL Auto mode, and will therefore work on any camera.

Some do, some don't. I've just checked the manuals and the SB700 & SB300 don't have any auto function with non-CLS cameras, whereas others like the SB900 do.

[elliot_n]

I wouldn't call the SB300 a 'pro' flashgun. Anyway, what I meant was that with their flagship flashguns (SB24, 25, 26, 28, 80, 800, 900 etc), Nikon has always provided an old school Auto mode as well as a dedicated TTL mode, and this means that all of them can be used with any camera.

[elliot_n]

Older auto flashes were a lot dumber, but did the work themselves. So you just set a power level on the flash, set the correct f stop for that power level at your chosen ISO and the flashgun would adjust it's output to give the correct exposure as distance(& subject ?) changed. All within it's specified operating range.

To clarify, when using a flash in Auto mode, by setting the f stop on the flashgun you are setting the power level.

[Rhossydd]

To clarify, when using a flash in Auto mode, by setting the f stop on the flashgun you are setting the power level.

That doesn't clarify it.
You set the f stop on the lens according to the indication from the flashgun. What f stop is recommended will depend on the power the flashgun is set to use and the sensitivity (ISO) of the film/sensor.

[elliot_n]

That doesn't clarify it.
You set the f stop on the lens according to the indication from the flashgun. What f stop is recommended will depend on the power the flashgun is set to use and the sensitivity (ISO) of the film/sensor.

What I wanted to clarify is that in Auto mode, there is no independent 'power level' setting (measured, say, from '1' to '10'). The power level is set by the f-stop you choose on the flashgun. (At least that's how it works on the Nikon units I listed. Also Metz. The old Vivitars (283, 285) are a little more complicated and less flexible.)

[Rhossydd]

The old Vivitars (283, 285) are a little more complicated and less flexible.

Actually they, like the older Metz units and Sunpak etc are very simple and easily understood.

Saying you set an f stop via the flashgun isn't clear at all and could lead to all sorts of misunderstandings by people that really don't know anything about the subject.

[elliot_n]

Actually they, like the older Metz units and Sunpak etc are very simple and easily understood.

Yes, that's true.

But a Nikon flashgun is simpler and more flexible.

With Nikon you simply select the aperture you wish to shoot at on the back of the flashgun. You can select any aperture.

With Vivitar, you're restricted to one of four apertures, and you have to set the ISO dial on the side and then correlate it with colour coded thyrsitor dial.

To the OP, I'd recommend a secondhand Nikon flash. Of all those I listed, my favourite is the SB80DX.

[Rhossydd]

But a Nikon flashgun is simpler and more flexible.

YMMV, I find modern flashgun systems almost incomprehensibly complicated as they try to pack so many features into such a limited interface.

[melchiorpavone]

YMMV, I find modern flashgun systems almost incomprehensibly complicated as they try to pack so many features into such a limited interface.

Ditto!

[elliot_n]

YMMV, I find modern flashgun systems almost incomprehensibly complicated as they try to pack so many features into such a limited interface.

You do need to read the manual, but as with modern cameras, you learn what you need and ignore the rest.

Even when used in just Manual and Auto modes a Nikon flash such as the SB80DX will have the following advantages over an old school workhorse like the Vivitar 283:

- a full range of apertures in Auto mode
- accurate manual control in third stops, from full power to 1/128 power in Manual mode
- more even light output
- a zoomable light beam from 14mm to 105mm. (Vivitar 283 is fixed at 35mm).
- cleaner light. (Vivitar 283 has a yellow tint)
- swivel as well as tilt for bounced flash (Vivitar is only tilt)
- built in slave
- modelling light feature

I used to shoot with Vivitars, but I much prefer the Nikons I use now.

[Rhossydd]

You do need to read the manual, but as with modern cameras, you learn what you need and ignore the rest.

I'm quite capable of reading the manual thank you. I've been using the Canon system for years with four speed lights plus the ancillary control units etc.....
But it's still too easy to miss one tiny element in the LCD display that messes things up.

[elliot_n]

Do Canon flashes have an Auto mode?

[Rhossydd]

Do Canon flashes have an Auto mode?

Not an auto on anything mode. I think they rely on the camera's own meter(via it's 'wireless sync) and have no active measurement system of their own.

[orc73]

Thanks! As far as I understood it's setting f-stop(actual or corrected if one needs less or more power then for the ambient) and iso. Distance is measured in the Flash. Thats the old school auto mode, right? I really wonder how the flash measures distance, let's say if the model is not in the center- will the flash still rcognize it or blow up to please the background?

[Rhossydd]

I really wonder how the flash measures distance,

I don't think any flashguns actually measure distance themselves.
Modern system guns can use distance information from autofocus cameras when the information can be transferred back to the gun.
Flashes using 'dumb' data just use overall light levels reflected back from the subject to adjust power output, so can be subject to 'subject failure' in a similar way to the most basic camera auto exposure systems that just expect everything to average to grey.

[mouse]

Distance is measured in the Flash. Thats the old school auto mode, right? I really wonder how the flash measures distance, let's say if the model is not in the center- will the flash still rcognize it or blow up to please the background?

The old school or classic flash in auto mode does not measure distance.  It simply measures the light reflected from the scene and adjusts the duration of the flash accordingly.   Most are more or less center weighted (like the older in camera light meters).  As you fear, it does not recognize the model.  The best bet is to take a few bracketed exposures varying the flash power (duration) by the aperture setting on the flash.