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Author Topic: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?  (Read 4924 times)

gwhitf

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Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« on: August 08, 2014, 06:20:38 pm »

So I'm running Color Munki monitor calibrator, and I'm trying to calibrate, or profile, or whatever, these two monitors. The Thunderbolt 27 is tied in to the 15" MacbookPro Retina thru the Thunderbolt cable.

My settings for both are:

* 120 lumens
* 6500 Kelvin
* 2.2 Gamma
* Advanced Mode in Color Munki

After running it several times on both monitors, they are pretty far apart. The Retina "looks" more neutral in the grays, whatever "looks" is worth. The grays look slightly greenish on the Thunderbolt 27.

They both seem to "pass the test" and be profiled or calibrated, but they certainly do not look the same color or brightness.

Does Color Munki actually turn up or down the Brightness of each one, once calibrated?

Any suggestions? Working on an advertising job, to be output to CMYK.

Thanks.
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digitaldog

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 07:05:41 pm »

As you can see, those tests are useless (just feel good buttons). You've also seen you need dissimilar calibration targets to make two differing display systems match which isn't unexpected. The question is, does the software provide sufficient controls to produce a match? Green indicates you need to adjust on the opposite axis usually provided for White Balance (Yellow/Blue) so does the product have controls over the other axis of color? If not, you're stuck with green.
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gwhitf

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 07:23:46 pm »

But I paid my money so that the hardware and the software would bring it to some standard of ColorSync. The goal is to take the "me-ness" out of it, which implies subjectivity, and turn it over to an impartial machine and high quality software.

Me, as a human, have no business anywhere in this process.

I don't get it. Why pay all this money?

It's 2014; are we still stuck in the Dark Ages? Still? No progress?

I thought my money was paid so that the green, (or whatever), would be removed by the software?

The brightness of each monitor should also be altered, it would seem, to bring each one to 120 lumens.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:25:50 pm by gwhitf »
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digitaldog

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 07:31:12 pm »

But I paid my money so that the hardware and the software would bring it to some standard of ColorSync.
I have no idea what standard you refer to. I don't believe one exists.
Quote
The goal is to take the "me-ness" out of it, which implies subjectivity, and turn it over to an impartial machine and high quality software.
Would you expect an output profile for an Epson 3880 for Luster to work on all other papers? I'd hope not as you need a specific paper for each. The display is no different. You want two dissimilar output devices to match so expecting the same calibration setting to work isn't going to fly as you've seen.
Quote
I don't get it. Why pay all this money?
Had you paid more for the right solution (like an NEC SpectraView) this would be moot.
Quote
The brightness of each monitor should also be altered, it would seem, to bring each one to 120 lumens.
The settings that create a match are the correct settings. Your biggest issue sounds like the green cast and I kind of doubt you paid enough for software that controls that adjustment.
Read this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml
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howardm

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 09:17:58 pm »

it's been a while since I owned a Munki but I dont think you can adjust the tint (magenta/green axis).

Do know that you can download/use the Argyll color management software, along w/ dispcalGUI (a GUI for the Argyll command line tools) and get that capability.  There was nothing special about the Munki software.

You want to avoid using calibration software to lower the brightness but rather rely on the brightness control of the display, otherwise you end up throwing away a chunk of the 8bit RGB resolution (since lowering the brightness is done by lowering the slope of the RGB colors downwards)

shewhorn

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 11:05:45 am »

Had you paid more for the right solution (like an NEC SpectraView) this would be moot.

The NEC PA272w is $10 less than the 27" Apple Thunderbolt Display. Even without a colorimeter, Multiprofiler would allow you to attain a better match. Add the Spectraview software for $89 and an i1Display Pro and you have yourself a very versatile rig.

Cheers, Joe
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rubencarmona

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 06:32:48 am »

What Colormunki do you use exactly? There are three different types.
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yalag

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2014, 03:04:32 pm »

How come one can't expect to have two monitors look the same after calibration+profile? I thought that's the whole point of this, is to get a output system to a know predetermined state. Would it be different if I had two of the same monitors? Is this only not applicable because of the limitations of the different display technology?
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digitaldog

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2014, 03:07:27 pm »

How come one can't expect to have two monitors look the same after calibration+profile? I thought that's the whole point of this, is to get a output system to a know predetermined state. Would it be different if I had two of the same monitors? Is this only not applicable because of the limitations of the different display technology?

Yes. They can within reason, but the calibration settings for each is likely to be different to result in a match. It might not be possible in a case where you have a cheap sRGB like display and a much better wide gamut unit. It might not be possible if the software used for calibration doesn't have the controls to alter the behavior of the two. IF you want two displays to appear identically, you'd want two reference grade display systems (two NEC PA272W's). And here, using the same software and instrument, you could set the calibration of the NEC software for identical settings. Other than that, all bets are off, YMMV.
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rubencarmona

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 08:36:52 am »

Indeed it should be possible, but I'm not sure if this works with ColorMunki, maybe you need a i1 Display therefore. I do that with a Spyder4Elite which has a "StudioMatch" function that does that: Find out which parameters are best to match both screens and that works good for me as long as my ambient light is dark and under control...
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 10:42:06 am »

Yes. They can within reason, but the calibration settings for each is likely to be different to result in a match. It might not be possible in a case where you have a cheap sRGB like display and a much better wide gamut unit. It might not be possible if the software used for calibration doesn't have the controls to alter the behavior of the two. IF you want two displays to appear identically, you'd want two reference grade display systems (two NEC PA272W's). And here, using the same software and instrument, you could set the calibration of the NEC software for identical settings. Other than that, all bets are off, YMMV.

Andrew.  As a ‘ColorMunki Photo’ owner I use the ColorMunki to ‘calibrate’ my iMac and laptop.  I would expect, and in fact do get, a reasonably good correlation in colour given the technical differences in the two displays.  With respect, I do not believe it is necessary to have a top grade colour calibration instruments, software, and monitors in order to achieve this.  The ColorMunki should give a reasonable (but not perfect) correlation in terms of neutrality of greyscale.  If it is not then there is something wrong.

To address the OP's question.  It would be helpful to know which ColorMunki you are using since the ColorMunki Display allows a sensor on top of the instrument to control the brightness of the display through the software, dependent on the ambient light.  It is possible that this may be a source of your problems.  As I said above you should be able to get reasonably, but not perfectly, close in terms neutrality and of correlation of colour – given the two different display technologies.  If you want, or need, something better then Digital Dog's suggestions are the ones to go for.  If time is of the essence then the supplied Apple profiles are not bad.
In terms of the relative brightness of the two displays the way the ColorMunki software works will not give you a match through profiling the displays, you will need to do this by eye.  The ‘Advanced’ mode of the software allows you to adjust the display brightness to a predetermined level, but my experience of using this suggests that it is somewhat crude and it’s precision cannot be relied on.  Particularly with the laptop  find I need to adjust the brightness from time to time anyway, dependent on the ambient light in which I am viewing.

I hope this helps.
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digitaldog

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2014, 10:54:56 am »

Andrew.  As a ‘ColorMunki Photo’ owner I use the ColorMunki to ‘calibrate’ my iMac and laptop.  I would expect, and in fact do get, a reasonably good correlation in colour given the technical differences in the two displays.  With respect, I do not believe it is necessary to have a top grade colour calibration instruments, software, and monitors in order to achieve this.  The ColorMunki should give a reasonable (but not perfect) correlation in terms of neutrality of greyscale.  If it is not then there is something wrong.
It's not just the instrument, it's also the software and the type of backlight technology used that require differing calibration targets to produce a visual match. Why does the software ask you for the type of display you're using? Heard of metameric failure?
The right numbers, even with the same instrument and software are those that produce a match and often, the numbers differ to achieve that goal.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 01:30:44 pm »

It's not just the instrument, it's also the software and the type of backlight technology used that require differing calibration targets to produce a visual match. Why does the software ask you for the type of display you're using? Heard of metameric failure?
The right numbers, even with the same instrument and software are those that produce a match and often, the numbers differ to achieve that goal.

Agreed.
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rubencarmona

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Re: Matching 15" MacBookPro Retina to 27" Thunderbolt?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2014, 08:25:42 am »

Found a great video on the topic of metamerism failure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5iAYzai3ZI
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