Nikon D810 and its EFC shutter

[LawrenceBraunstein]

I am, as yet, still undecided whether to upgrade to the new Nikon D810 (from the D800E). Though I really don’t expect any substantial IQ improvements from the D810, alone the (purportedly-) much improved Live View - a source of considerable frustration with my D800E - could possibly justify an upgrade (for me, at least). Also, I find the new electronic first-curtain shutter (or as Nikon calls it, “front-curtain...”) potentially very interesting, though I’m waiting for enough well executed tests to be made available before reaching any final conclusions. However, Nikon’s implementation of their EFC shutter has caused considerable confusion resulting in conflicting information found on the web (nothing new for the internet). The user manual states simply that after activation (custom settings, d5), the EFC shutter is available “in Mup mode” (on the release mode dial). In addition to the confusion as to whether or not the EFC shutter is also available in Live View (and if yes, with or without ‘Mup’), I couldn’t find any conclusive information whether the EFC shutter is equally available in ‘Exposure Delay Mode’ (without the need to activate ‘Mup’, of course). In my frustration, I wrote to Nikon, Germany (where I live) and asked specifically this last question regarding the use of Exposure Delay Mode, and was told that the EFC shutter is in fact available in this mode without the release mode dial set to ‘Mup’!

A big request of forum members! Would it be possible for those of you who have already purchased the D810 to verify this? For example, while remaining in ’S’ mode (Single frame) and after enabling the EFC shutter (via custom settings, d5), could you determine whether the camera is using the EFC or the mechanical shutter? Knowing this would be of considerable help for me and, I suppose, quite a few other potential buyers.

Many thanks in advance and hoping to see the results of your test soon...

with best regards,

Larry

[BernardLanguillier]

To use EFC in live view, 2 things need to be done:
1. Activate EFC in the menu once for all,
2. Switch to MLU mode on the upper left dial.

You then need to activate the shutter twice:
1. A first time to reset the sensor (the screen goes black),
2. A second time to take the picture.

I personally find this to be ok.

Cheers,
Bernard

[JohnBrew]

Bernard, while you listed the way to use it in Live View, you didn't answer his question. I, too, would be interested in how you use EFC in Single mode. Maybe the OP needs to ask Nikon this question since they are the ones who stated it is possible.

[LawrenceBraunstein]

Maybe the OP needs to ask Nikon this question since they are the ones who stated it is possible.

If I understood the Nikon representative correctly, one needs to first enable the EFC shutter via the customs setting d5, then activate the Exposure Delay Mode (choose a time from 1 to 3 sec.). The EFC shutter should then function just as it does in Mup mode, except we need only one press of the shutter. What I’m seeking is verification that this is true.

With best regards,

Larry

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard, while you listed the way to use it in Live View, you didn't answer his question. I, too, would be interested in how you use EFC in Single mode. Maybe the OP needs to ask Nikon this question since they are the ones who stated it is possible.

John,

I believe that I did, it is not possible to use EFC in live view without selecting MLU mode on the drive dial, which means it is not possible in S mode.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Stephen Starkman]

Hi Lawrence.

Tried this with a D810.

Bernard's posts are accurate.

My quick test shows:
EFC only works with MUP - with or without the delay mode. Irrespective of LV.
i.e.: doesn't work in S.

Wish it did

[LawrenceBraunstein]

I thank all of you for your quick responses to my query. However, though I did mention LV in my initial post, my main concern regards the use of the EFC shutter without the use of LV and without the use of Mup. Nikon claims that using the Exposure Delay Mode in effect is (as far as the EFC shutter is concerned) the same as using Mup and therefore the EFC shutter is available in both modes; either Mup or Exposure Delay Mode, one or the other. No need to use both!

Stephen writes, “EFC only works with MUP - with or without the delay mode.” My question is asking more or less the same thing the other way around. Does EFC work in Exposure Delay Mode - without Mup? Nikon claims it does. Sorry for the confusion!

Have a great day!

Larry

[BernardLanguillier]

I thank all of you for your quick responses to my query. However, though I did mention LV in my initial post, my main concern regards the use of the EFC shutter without the use of LV and without the use of Mup. Nikon claims that using the Exposure Delay Mode in effect is (as far as the EFC shutter is concerned) the same as using Mup and therefore the EFC shutter is available in both modes; either Mup or Exposure Delay Mode, one or the other. No need to use both!

Stephen writes, “EFC only works with MUP - with or without the delay mode.” My question is asking more or less the same thing the other way around. Does EFC work in Exposure Delay Mode - without Mup? Nikon claims it does. Sorry for the confusion!

Sorry  I misunderstood that Larry, I'll try that tonight.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Stephen Starkman]

"...Does EFC work in Exposure Delay Mode - without Mup?"

No, unfortunately.

Just tested this on the 810.
S mode. Custom setting d5 ON (EFCS). Delay mode on. Greeted by sight of mechanical first curtain when tripping shutter release.


Stephen

[LawrenceBraunstein]

Stephen, thank you for your verification that ‘Mup’ needs to be selected on the release mode dial in order for the EFC shutter to function. Sorry for not responding to your last post more quickly. The reason, however, was because I decided to pose the same question (as I had to Nikon, Germany) to Nikon, U.K. as well as Nikon, USA.  Support at Nikon, U.K. quickly confirmed your own findings, thereby contradicting the claim made by Nikon, Germany (that the EFC shutter supposedly functions in Exposure Delay Mode without the release dial set to ‘Mup’ ) and confirming that the information in the user manual is correct. As of now, I have yet to hear from Nikon, USA. I plan to notify Nikon, Germany of the error they made with the hope that the confusion revolving around the new EFC shutter doesn’t spread even further.

By the way, your “No, unfortunately” expresses my sentiments exactly! I’m hoping that a future firmware update will improve on Nikon’s implementation of their EFC shutter. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be able to work in Exposure Delay Mode (without 'Mup') or, for that matter, why it is necessary to activate Mup even when the camera is in LV where the mirror is already up. In any case, thanks again for checking!

With best wishes,

Larry

[Hans Kruse]

Stephen, thank you for your verification that ‘Mup’ needs to be selected on the release mode dial in order for the EFC shutter to function. Sorry for not responding to your last post more quickly. The reason, however, was because I decided to pose the same question (as I had to Nikon, Germany) to Nikon, U.K. as well as Nikon, USA.  Support at Nikon, U.K. quickly confirmed your own findings, thereby contradicting the claim made by Nikon, Germany (that the EFC shutter supposedly functions in Exposure Delay Mode without the release dial set to ‘Mup’ ) and confirming that the information in the user manual is correct. As of now, I have yet to hear from Nikon, USA. I plan to notify Nikon, Germany of the error they made with the hope that the confusion revolving around the new EFC shutter doesn’t spread even further.

By the way, your “No, unfortunately” expresses my sentiments exactly! I’m hoping that a future firmware update will improve on Nikon’s implementation of their EFC shutter. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be able to work in Exposure Delay Mode (without 'Mup') or, for that matter, why it is necessary to activate Mup even when the camera is in LV where the mirror is already up. In any case, thanks again for checking!

With best wishes,

Larry

This has in fact been discussed already in other threads, but Bernard was already correct in his first response about the behavior
He says it is ok to press the shutter twice in live view to take a picture. Personally I think this implementation sucks since forcing MUP to be active and shooting a bracket sequence for high DR landscape shooting (or whatever reason) you need to click the shutter twice for each shot in the breacket sequence, e.g. a 5 way bracket sequence would need 10 clicks on the shutter. For a long focal length like 200mm this is ok, but still only one click on the shutter per picture should be needed. It is my experience that for focal lengths less than 100mm (or maybe slightly higher) that shooting continous for bracketing in live view does not blur pictures. I have not done any tests on the D810 on this. But plan to do this.

I can understand that an engineer find it logical that two clicks is needed since outside of live view the first click in MUP lifts the mirror!!!! However in live view the first click using EFC has not function whatsoever. In my view it would have been logical in live view to set the wheel to Qc and then EFC would be enabled even it not enabled in the menu setting for MUP. But I doubt Nikon will change anything.

One good thing is that the D810 does not lock up in live view until the pictures shot has been written to the card(s) as the D800 does.

[Paul2660]

I agree that in Live View, the 2x click seems redundant as the mirror is already up.  Shortsighted firmware programing, and possible that not too many field tests were done as this should be been caught.  Since the mirror is already up, one hopes that a firmware update might allow the single click in Live View.

Paul

[BernardLanguillier]

I agree that in Live View, the 2x click seems redundant as the mirror is already up.  Shortsighted firmware programing, and possible that not too many field tests were done as this should be been caught.  Since the mirror is already up, one hopes that a firmware update might allow the single click in Live View.

Paul,

The first clicks resets the sensor, the second one triggers the image capture.

Not knowing the Nikon sensor implementation, I don't know how long sensor reseting takes, but doing both reset and capture in one click would result in an exposure delay as long as the sensor reseting time.

This may be why they have opted for the current implementation. I am not sure we can say at this point that this is an oversight on their part.

It may or may not be.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Hans Kruse]

I agree that in Live View, the 2x click seems redundant as the mirror is already up.  Shortsighted firmware programing, and possible that not too many field tests were done as this should be been caught.  Since the mirror is already up, one hopes that a firmware update might allow the single click in Live View.

Paul

One more consideration and again an engineering view: When EFC in not active there is a need for two clicks in live view with MUP active. The first click closes the shutter and the second click opens the shutter for exposure. It is probably considered logical to keep the two clicks also when EFC is active even though the first click does nothing.

[Hans Kruse]

Paul,

The first clicks resets the sensor, the second one triggers the image capture.

Not knowing the Nikon sensor implementation, I don't know how long sensor reseting takes, but doing both reset and capture in one click would result in an exposure delay as long as the sensor reseting time.

This may be why they have opted for the current implementation. I am not sure we can say at this point that this is an oversight on their part.

It may or may not be.

Cheers,
Bernard

How do you know that the first click resets the sensor?

[Hans Kruse]

Here are some measurements of the difference between using EFC and not for a 50mm lens which seem consistent with my visual observations. See http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6610

For a longer lens 135mm here http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6638

And a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens with tripod collar http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6650

The article with references are here http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6731

So EFC does help for longer lenses and at fairly high shutter speeds which may come as a surprise.

[BernardLanguillier]

How do you know that the first click resets the sensor?

Hans,

I read that somewhere butvI canno seem to find my source unfortunately.

I may have the chance to visit the Nikon center in Shinjuku this weekend, I'll ask them directly.

Cheers,
Bernard