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Author Topic: 3 Week nepal visit  (Read 7632 times)

larkis

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3 Week nepal visit
« on: August 03, 2014, 04:03:50 pm »

I have a chance to go to nepal with a friend but unfortunately I only have 3 weeks. I plan to visit again, but for this first time, what would be some good suggestions as far as routes go ? I'm more into mountains than jungles so any good hikes that don't take 20 days to complete would be good. Can this even be done ?

I looked at the everest base camp trek, but that takes about 20 days to compete. This is tough given the travel to and from nepal (i'm in canada) and the acclimatization I would need.

Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 01:41:49 am »

The "standard" Everest Base Camp trek takes 14 days if you fly in and out of Lukla, so it is possible to do it in 3 weeks time with enough time to see Kathmandu valley also. The only caveat is weather. You are not saying at what time of the year you are planning to go. If photography is important, late November to December is ideal (even January-February, but even colder) as the weather is most clear, less smog in Kathmandu and less tourists. Also the Lukla flights are then reliable. Problem with Lukla flights is weather related, sometimes at the start and the end of the monsoon season (mid May - Mid October) planes can not fly for several days causing problems for those who have too tight schedules and start to miss their international flights. You should not plan to trek during the monsoon, bad trails, rain, no views.

Certainly EBC trek has the best mountain views and is doable in a fortnight, using flights. Another option is Annapurna Circuit, which takes a bit longer including transfers to/from Kathmandu if the whole remaining trail is hiked (road building has somewhat diminished the magic of this famous trek). It is also possible to cheat a bit at the end by flying out from Jomsom, thus the time needed is somewhere between 12 and 18 days total for AC.

As you probably already know the best way to arrange a trek is to hire a guide and porter from a local agency. Guide is useful for first timers and as an interpreter with locals if you want to take portraits, and a porter can carry the luggage for two trekkers. There are teahouses and lodges along the popular trails and the total cost would be around $25/day for food & bed, plus about $40 for the guide and porter, divided between the two of you.

If you need a reliable agency contact, PM me. I have trekked in Nepal on 8 occasions since 1984 and the last time was last October.
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maddogmurph

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 03:57:13 pm »

Have you done the GHT?  I've put that trek on my to do list.  I was thinking about going over for a month this October, but decided against it, I suppose I could still go though in November or December.  Tickets were only $1,000 !  Insane considering once you get there and you're trekking costs are fairly minimal I'd imagine. 

There are many 3-7 day treks, and there are tons of agencies willing to over charge you to do these.  And over charging isn't really that expensive all said and done.  I have another curious question, is there any wild life in the mountains?  Have you done the jungles below as well?

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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 06:06:24 am »

I have walked these routes so far, parts of them are GHT:

1984: long old Annapurna Circuit and Annapurna Sanctuary, 26 days
1985: Khumbu from Jiri to Gokyo, Cho La to EBC with climb to camp 1, across Amphu Labtsa to Mera, Lukla, walkout to Jiri. 42 days.
1986: took 23 customers around the old AC, Dhumre-Pokhara 23 days
1998: Khumbu revisit, Jiri-Goky-EBC-Lukla, 23 days
2000: same as above + attempt on Peak 41, total 40 days
2006: shorter AC with wife, 16 days
2009: Manaslu Circuit attempt with wife and 5 others (camping trek), Naar-Pho valley, Tilicho Lake, ABC, EBC cool-off Lukla-EBC-Shivalaya, total 52 days
2013: took 3 first timers to ABC, with wife. 9 days

After I get retired in a few years and get an artificial hip joint also to the right side I'll go back and do some backcountry exploration and maybe Tsum valley, Langtang-Helambu. Later the aim is on Naar-Pho-Mustang-Dolpo grand trek which would take maybe 6 weeks. That would be the best part of the high GHT.

Photos from 2009: https://picasaweb.google.com/109958612223411682295/Nepal200952DaysOfTrekkingInTheManasluAnnapurnaAndKhumbuRegions

"Package treks" are convenient for first timers, but to keep your freedom it is better to just hire a porter-guide (or porters and guide, depending on the group size) and go at your own pace and where you want, of course adhering to the acclimatization rules. It is also often cheaper to go independently. Basically life on the trails cost $25/day, much cheaper than life in cities. In addition some $50 is needed for various permits. Hiring staff costs $15-30/day/person depending on status, those costs are further divided by the group. So the costly part it to get into Nepal, life there is cheap (decent hotel room in Kathmandu costs $30/night).
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Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 10:18:22 am »

I would do the Annapurna circuit starting at Dhampus or Lumle (the old British Agricultural station) and heading toward Thoolakharka which is just inside the national park.

You could make a loop of it...and it should take anywhere from 10 to 21 day depending upon your hurry or not. You would be at about 2,000 meters average all the way...

Best time to go would be mid-October to mid-November - starting in late November you will get cold nights and some foggy (overcast) days...fine if you keep moving but it can be dreary. Once the rainy season ends in early October (varies by a couple of weeks each year), hiking up in the mountains is wonderful...but once December rolls around, in some years the southern air retreats and colder air comes down from China - and it can be foggy for several hrs in the morning and then overcast.

A fine hotel room in Kathmandu will cost about $10/person. (Look up Tasi Dhargey for example - I stay there regularly). You don't need air-con from October on...you DO want to know when hot water is available for showers. That is critical knowledge in any hotel anywhere in Nepal. In the mountains, hotels are $8-$15 depending upon where and how many other hotels are nearby...food is about $10/day so long as you don't drink any beer...I highly recommend hiking the trail on your own sans guide/porter. Just get a big trekking back pack OR wait until you get to Kathmandu - there is a Marmot and a Mountain Hardwear (perhaps even North Face) store on the outskirts of the tourist section. You can get anything you need there...or forgot at home...or was too heavy to carry from home. Once done you can sell it to a trekking shop in town.

I've been doing bird migration research (raptors primarily) in the area of Thoolakharka since 1999..you asked about wildlife in the mountains...are birds wildlife? These are larger birds - there are many small ones in the forests/montane grasslands: http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1021128

there are other types of wildlife such as leopards (rare and not a problem for people); yellow footed weasel (large but not dangerous) - and there are a few Snow Leopards left...Blue Sheep - but you will need to be really high up to see them - so look for the large birds such as vultures (nine species) and eagles (Mountain Hawk-eagle; Black Eagle; Bonelli's Eagle) - get a bird book...

anyway, consider going without a guide/porter...distances between towns are not great; the trail is well-marked and wide...get yourself a Lonely Planet or Rough Guide...

Robert DeCandido
currently in Thailand where I also do bird migration research...since 2003

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maddogmurph

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 04:10:00 pm »

Yes, birds are wildlife.  And what a treat it would be to see a cat.  I hiked for 5 months in 2012 and only saw a lynx, but it wasn't posing for photos.  I'm curious what camera you're using.  I definitely would lean against a porter myself, I don't know if they could keep up with me with the payloads they typically carry.  I move 20-25 miles per day when I'm going slow on a well traveled trial.  I'd like a guide with an ultralight setup that is use to moving fast, but I feel like that would be a hard person to find.  Most people would likely tell you that's them, and show up with a 60lb pack...
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Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 06:49:01 pm »

Canon 5D3 with 800mm lens for the bird photos...and the Tamron 24-70 F2.8 IS for landscapes..or the Sony RX-1

The porters will definitely be able to keep up with you - I meet a lot of them in my work in the mountains and they are youngish (usually 25-35)...and nice enough. It is the guides that can speak English (often not the porters)..some guides know much but most of the ones I meet are/were city kids and really give you a typical tour leader talk...pretty basic and nothing you could not get by talking to people on the trail (most people and even Nepali people speak English)...and you would save the money on the porter's/guide's food and lodging...

rdc
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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 12:12:36 am »

Yes, birds are wildlife.  And what a treat it would be to see a cat.  I hiked for 5 months in 2012 and only saw a lynx, but it wasn't posing for photos.  I'm curious what camera you're using.  I definitely would lean against a porter myself, I don't know if they could keep up with me with the payloads they typically carry.  I move 20-25 miles per day when I'm going slow on a well traveled trial.  I'd like a guide with an ultralight setup that is use to moving fast, but I feel like that would be a hard person to find.  Most people would likely tell you that's them, and show up with a 60lb pack...

It is usually the client/trekker who shows up with a 60lb pack, not the guide. Porter would have even less than a typical guide. Certainly 20-25 miles/day is a lot more than the average, and it should be noted that on many routes the daily distances are often less than 10 miles, maybe even only 6 or so, because of steep ascents and the need to acclimate against AMS. In 2009 we did a fast EBC trek, twice hiking 2 days worth of trails at one go, and our porter guide was able to follow us with a 25 kg pack, even if he arrived maybe an hour later. He was actually quite proud of us bragging about our speed at the lodges. We were well pre-acclimatized, of course. He had previously worked with us as a cook on the 32 day Manaslu-Naar-Pho-Tilicho route. It is true that some of the "guides" are city boys not really familiar with the countryside and not even in a good shape. City life does that to you. When we walked out from EBC there were two young men from Kathmandu doing the same and they were lagging behind every day, always amazed about how fast we were. And we were both well over 50, me with osteoarthritis of the hips. Still there were guides going home also, and they were 50% faster than us, going without a pack. On a historical note; If I am not mistaken the fastest recorded time EBC-Kathmandu was done by a mail runner in 1953 Hunt expedition, it took him something like 4 days, while the approach march to the opposite direction had taken almost 3 weeks. So there are individuals who could even keep up with good Mr Maddogmurph

I have always had a porter at least, for comfort, and it is the custom of the land. What comes to wildlife we have seen plenty of blue sheep in the Tilicho Lake and Naar-Pho areas, surprisingly tame, also Himalyan Thar and Musk Deer (abundant in Khumbu). No Snow leopard yet, but tracks yes. There are pictures of blue sheep & thar in the link I gave previously.

Last time I carried a Nikon D800e with 24-120 f:4 Nikkor. I really need nothing longer as I am not birding, and with D800 it is possible to use "digital zoom" in post also. At other times I have made do with P&S, as I have been carrying a fairly large video camera. On my first 3 trips I had two Olympus OM series bodies and a wide-angle camera and pack full of KodaChrome 64. Film was heavier than the shooting gear...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 02:05:06 am by Petrus »
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Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 12:29:37 am »

that's not me who is looking to hike long distances fast-fast ???

I usually park myself at Thoolakharka (Australian Camp) for several weeks doing my research on the last hill west from Dhampus. :)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 12:34:02 am by Robert DeCandido PhD »
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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 02:04:30 am »

that's not me who is looking to hike long distances fast-fast ???

I usually park myself at Thoolakharka (Australian Camp) for several weeks doing my research on the last hill west from Dhampus. :)

Sorry sorry sorry....

corrcted...
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Ray

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 04:56:00 am »

I have a chance to go to nepal with a friend but unfortunately I only have 3 weeks. I plan to visit again, but for this first time, what would be some good suggestions as far as routes go ? I'm more into mountains than jungles so any good hikes that don't take 20 days to complete would be good. Can this even be done ?

I looked at the everest base camp trek, but that takes about 20 days to compete. This is tough given the travel to and from nepal (i'm in canada) and the acclimatization I would need.

In my opinion your best option would be a trek to the Annapurna Base Camp (ABC) from Pokhara. Hire your own personal guide and porter in Pokhara so you have the freedom to alter your schedule according to how you feel, and take a bit longer than the recommended 10 days, as described in attached link at http://www.getyourguide.com/annapurna-l2007/10-day-annapurna-base-camp-trek-from-pokhara-t31326/

The ABC camp is 4,200 metres. If you are not used to such heights you might want to trek more slowly and/or take a shorter route such as trekking to Ghandruk instead of Ghorepani. The advantage of taking the longer route through Ghorepani is that you get the opportunity to photograph a spectacular view of the Himalayan mountain range at dawn, by getting up early at 4am, and trekking in the dark up Poon Hill. Well worth the effort if the weather is fine.  ;)
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Robert DeCandido PhD

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 08:51:33 am »

trek sounds nice but at about $70-$88 USD/day (depending how many days out on the trail) - that is expensivo for Nepal. He could hire his own personal guide and porter for less...

get the Lonely Planet or Rough Guide or something similar..do research on the net..plan a trip on a trail (yes the ABC is wonderful) - and find out all about it...and then go with a friend or alone. You won't need to buy supplies because you can get food and water at every lodge that is 5-10 km from the next set of lodges...it is pretty tough to get lost - just ask people who are hiking with other groups; the lodge managers etc etc. And if you find it is too much to do on your own (a) take a couple day break somewhere...or hire some porter who you will meet at one of the lodges...

save your money...Nepal is a frugal place -

rdc
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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 11:27:48 am »

Few words about costs:

Along the popular routes which require no compulsory guide (Annapurna, Langtang-Helambu and Khumbu), daily food and lodgings cost $15-30/day depending on eating habits and area, Khumbu/EBC being the most costly. At those prices it is actually cheaper to trek than spend time in cities. As it is perfectly possible to trek alone that is the total daily cost.

Always in addition comes the fixed cost of different permits and passes/tickets, which usually cost around $50/trek, no matter how long it is.

If one wants to hire a porter-guide, who carries maximum of 30kg load and is able to communicate in english, the cost is around $20/day + 15% tip at the end. Transportation must be also provided. As one porter-guide can carry for two persons, total daily cost for a couple employing a porter-guide is about $35/day/person.

For a larger group it is practical to hire a guide who speaks better english, but carries no load. Daily cost is $25-30/day + 15% tip. This cost is divided by all in the group. Than one porter is needed for each trekker, at $15/day per porter or $7.5/day/trekker.

Those prices are for groups or individuals who want to arrange their own treks for complete independence and freedom what comes to routes and timetables.

There are also readymade packages, where one can buy a slot on a pre-arranged trek. Those cost from around $60-100/day, where food, lodgings, guide & porter service is included, also transportation to/from trailhead and all necessary permits. These are sold also by western travel agencies, who subcontract the actual services from Nepalese agencies, adding their 50 something % to the price. If one buys directly from the local agencies the prices are as above.

The last kind of trek is the camping trek, where there is a whole retinue of guides, cooks, kitchen boys, porters etc, and trekkers sleep in tents, eat in a restaurant tent, use a toilet tent, etc. Those usually cost $120-250/day and are totally unnecessary along the popular routes. Agencies and travel agencies love to sell these to unsuspecting customers, of course, even when lodge based accommodation would be more comfortable and much cheaper. It is a different matter along some more remote routes where there are not enough lodges or not at all, and local communities can not provide food for trekkers (Dolpo is a prime example of this kind of region).

I have once been a "member" on a 32 day camping trek, where we had 31 staff for 7 trekkers. Guide, 2 assistant guides, cook, 2 kitchen boys, 2 kitchen helpers (there is a status difference…), sirdar (porter leader), porter cook, porter cook kitchen boy, and finally 20 porters (one of which carried only eggs). Total cost of this, including chartered bus to trailhead and permits, was 47€/day per person, about $60. It was all arranged directly with a local agency cutting all middlemen from the equation (sometimes 2 levels of travel agencies adding 40% commission each). Thus even exploring the restricted areas need not be hugely expensive, when you know the ropes.
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markadams99

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 08:25:34 am »

If time is tight, I'd suggest Langtang - easily accessible to the north of Kathmandu - but truly Himalayan.

For the Everest area consider going straight to Gokyo from Lukla - for spectacular view of Cho Oyu, Gyachung Kang, Ngzompu Glacier, Everest and more, then possibly making a circle by crossing Cho La into the Khumbu Valley with spectacular scenery closer to Everest and past Ama Dablam, tho you need to be fairly fit to enjoy the high pass crossing. Going right up to Everest Base Camp or slogging up Kala Pattar isn't really the best use of time.

Don't write off the jungle. It's a 5 hour drive to Chitwan Park which is a most pleasant 2-3 day natural history adventure...dawn walks with the threat of 1-horned rhinos....elephant rides through long grass, so that you can sneer at the rhinos.

Kathmandu itself is a big traffic jam these days, but vibrant. I've had enough of it.

My own taste is toward the remote far west (Kanjiroba Himal and beyond), but that's not for a 3 week trip. 

Ray

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 11:06:19 pm »

One thing to consider when choosing a trekking route is the prevalence of dusty, bumpy roads. As Nepal develops, it's gradually turning natural walking paths originally used by the local villagers and trekkers, into unsealed roads which are now used by all sorts of vehicles, not just 4WDs.

Whilst it's interesting to encounter a train of mules traveling along such roads carrying their heavy loads, or the locals carrying hay for the buffaloes, it's not so interesting having to avoid a passing vehicle creating swirls of dust.

Attached is a photo of one such road. Notice the difference in footwear between the man and the women.  ;D

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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 01:59:09 am »

Unfortunately the original Annapurna Circuit Trail, "the best long trek in the world", looks mostly just like that picture above nowadays. It is certainly possible to find side trails, but you will still cross that road many times and see and hear the motor vehicles in the distance. It also greatly alters the atmosphere of the villages, starting to have identical concrete third world bazaar architecture instead of having buildings in local style and materials. For that reason I recommend the Everest trek, as there is no roads to speak of, and the mountains are arguably the highest you can find. It is certainly not untouched by tourism, but that is the price of convenience: good sleeping and eating facilities. All the easily accessible high mountain areas are touristed for obvious reasons. In 2 weeks time (one week should be reserved for Kathmandu Valley, there is so much to see and photograph) it is difficult to get off the beaten track, and more remote restricted areas require a group of two trekkers for the permits. It could be done in a pinch, but I really see no reason not to go to Khumbu if one has 14 days for it, and a couple of spare days for delayed flights. It is the best convenient 2 week route by far at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:09:10 am by Petrus »
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macphotography08

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2014, 03:11:48 am »

Nepal is a nice place to visit, good location for photography.

spidermike

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2014, 09:48:29 am »

If it is not too late, I see two possibilities for three weeks:

For the Anapurna circuit you can go fro Pohara and do about the first third of the trek in a 'there and back' walk. I have not done it but friends have and apprently this gives you solid taster - the views are still spectacular and if you go into the Annapurna ring to Poon Hill you can get duperb views of Macchupachare. This is about 2 weeks in total and gives you plenty of time to look round Kathmandu, Bakhtapur and the local area

Another option is the Langtang trek that goes north from Kathmandu towards the Tiebtan border. This is one I did do alnog with the Everst Basecamp and was well worth doing. Again about a 2-week turnaround
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soboyle

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2014, 08:20:47 am »

It took me 21 days to do the Everest BC trek, starting from Jiri, trekking to Kala Patar, then flying out of Lukla. So Lukla EBC Lukla could be done in your time frame.
I could have done it quicker, but was being very cautious with acclimatization to the altitude, and spent extra time in Namche, Tengboche, and I made an overnight stop in Dughla that I would rather not have done (think small confined stone lodge with yak dung fire burning inside with no chimney, and dried yak & goat carcasses hanging from the ceiling). This was in 1987, and many cushy lodges have since been built along this route.

I count it as one of life's best experiences, so I highly recommend this trek to anyone. I did it solo, without guide or porter, trekking with many different trekkers I met along the way. I stayed in the village inns that are found all along the route. But don't underestimate those mountains, those ascents and descents are steep and unrelenting, so train well before you go and expect some pain with the pleasure.

Attached photo is Ama Dablam photographed from Kala Patar.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:22:25 am by soboyle »
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Petrus

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Re: 3 Week nepal visit
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2014, 11:07:05 am »

Things have changed a bit since -87, lodges are much fancier and there are about five times as many. Dughla has remained a dump, though, even if the lodges there are more numerous and bigger. First time I was there was in -85, last 2009.
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