Bob has many good points. He knows what he's talking about, pretty much all down the list here.
Something you say worries me that you might not be understanding how RAW files work. The RAW file contains the data straight from the camera's sensor, without all the in-camera software applied that converts it into a form meaningful to the human eye. To do something with it outside the camera, you need RAW conversion software (such as ACR), which knows enough about your camera to do the conversion to something that PS and your eye can deal with. At that point, it's no longer a RAW file, but a TIFF (or JPG, or photoshop format, or whatever else you choose to convert it to in ACR). It can still be 16 bit at this point (and should, if you really care about image quality). You can do most (not all, but most) photoshop manipulations (including sharpening) in 16 bit, and not convert to 8 bit until just before printing. Whether or not you start with a RAW file (or a TIFF, or JPG, or whatever) has nothing to do with getting a good color match when printing, which is at the opposite end of the workflow.
You really need to do some reading up to get a better understanding of the various steps involved from camera to computer to printer. There's a lot in between, and unless someone gives you a black-box-type "recipe" for exactly what to do without explanations, you'll need to get a better understanding of what's going on to get it to all work well; and the problem with just getting a recipe from somebody is that you won't know what to do next time there's a change in the technology, your equipment or your workflow.
Lisa
Well, pretty much what you say here is axiomatic to me because you haven't answered any of my questions.
I understand many of the things you are taking about, such as workflow and what needs to happen at the beggining and then the end, but more so in the web design end, such as sharpening at the end of all other adjusting, etc.
So let's start with what I do know, or at least have an idea about.
1) The RAW file is what the camera sees, and that is all. It must be converted using conversion software, as I have pointed that out above, which is PSCS2 for me. Yes, yes.
2) The first thing that happens is that you need to ge the RAW file into an editing program, for which there are several, including the camera manufacture's programs. However, many people feel that the camera company's programs are not too good, with some exceptions. Enter Adobe Photoshop CS1 and CS2, which has a very good RAW converter. Adobe also has a RAW conversion program for converting any RAW file to a standard RAW file, which I also ask about above.
3) After you open the file in your program, such as ACR, you can begin the process of white blance, contrast, and other changes that need to be done, and with PS, you get a nice histogram of that RAW information also. That being the case, it is also a good idea to keep in mind that RAW files have a better ability to store darker information that other file formats and film too. So if you have a left side histogram, which would be on the dark side, you can still have good inforamtion to work with.
4) I'm not sure while you are working in ACR if the file is still RAW or not. I assume it is RAW and converted on the fly to some other algoritm that the eye can see while doing adjustments. But who cares, right? You have to work on the RAW data no matter if it is cheese and salami as you work.
After you get done with the RAW settings in ACR, then you need to get it into PS for finishing touches and a printable version. At this point, you probably import it as a PSD, for future adjustments working with layers, or a TIFF file for printing. (Yeah I know you can save TIFFS with layers. Just humor me.) So now you have the original RAW file and the TIFF/PSD file. Yeah yeah, I have that pretty much
5) Other things you do, thanks to you and others pointing this out, is to sharpen using PS, not ACR, and I see that. Shapenening is something you do last to maintian the best possible image quality. Plus, as you have stated, it's a better algorithm in PS compared to ACR.
6) I understand that some of the adjustments you want in PS are not available while in 16 bit, and you must convert to 8 bit. I didn't know that many were available in 16. Of course, logic dictates that you do everything you can in 16 before converting to 8, so I get that flow also.
7) Of course file format has nothing to do with color match. That's why we need to calibrate our monitors and printer profiles. Actually, file format, such as JPG could have an affect on color if the compression mode allows color shift, but we're not taking about compressing, but reproduction, so your point is well taken.
I have been doing some reading on this subject, and I understand much of it. I'm cross referencing my understanding with --- HOPEFULY -- your ideas on workflow to avoid doing something that is "old school" or off beat and not acceptable any longer. There are many RAW work flow articles out there, but many were written two or more years ago. Without crossreferencing the knowledge I collect with your knowledge and proceedures, how would I avoid making mistakes by that can be avoided by asking you these questions?
9) Give me the "black box." I'm much smarter than I sound in my post, trust me. If I have a black box recipe for this sort of work flow, I'll be better able to fill in the information as I go. I just need that direction. I have a very analytic mind in that way. I've also always learned faster when I can ask questions, get straight answers--even when it seems like I'm "missing too much"--and then take that procedure and start figuring it out myself. (I actually taught myself Algebra and Calculus from a text books, with access to a professor ONLY for specific questions. I never had a real classroom experience for those subjects. It's just how I learn somethings better. And if you know what I mean here, you now that most people could never get a text book and figure out advanced math on their own, or even math, without a classromm type setting, or someone there all the time to keep them on track. I'm wierd, I admit.)
Last, what I am looking for, and Bob made a good start above which gets me going, is a skeletal approach to using RAW from start to finish. Now I repeat, I just wanted a skeletal list. I can figure the rest out by reading and asking more questions.
So to reiterate:
For now, I just need to focus my mind and it's knowledge of RAW workflow. For that to take place, I need the basic skeletal outline of getting from the ACR RAW converter to print with decent, not perfect, color reproduction.
An example of this may be something like:
1) Any profiles I need, given that I am using APSCS2.
2) Any adjustments I should NOT do in ACR.
3) Work in Adobe RGB--everyone agree on this--not ProPhoto?
4) This pertinas to #3: Should I use a printer profile, or are most modern printers calibrated to Adobe RGB?
4) Everyone agree that to calibrate your monitor to acceptable color reproduction at the print end, you need hardware?
5) In the ACR workspace, there are some options, such as "Settings" and then choices, such as "Camera Raw Defaults." Also, you can choose to "Load Settings" etc. Now I can read up on this, and I have an ideas what they do, but anyone care to comment on this for me? Again, just my weird questions for my specific way of learning. And yes I know I can "read up" on it and I ahve been doing so. However, I'd also like to compare my understanding of what I read with your explanations.
Last, I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I just need to learn how I learn, which to others may seem really wrong.
I mean my questions may seem really strange and heading in the wrong direction, or lacking robustness of understanding, but they are actaully very specific for my learning needs. For instance, sometimes I'll ask a question that seems very basic, and illicite repsonses like, "you really should know that before going on to X." However, hidden in that basic question are complex ideas that requiere the basic information I have on X to be established as fact. So I may have the information, at least basically, but I am cross referencing it with your ideas. Sometimes basic information seems contradictory to me, as I point out in my initial post here about white balance settings and shooting RAW.
So that's perhaps a better explanation of my mind and how it works. Another way to explain it is that my brain tends to suck everything in as fast as it can, and then it starts sorting it out. This is what Bob saw and meant when he simply said "slow down." I've tried that. My brain just doesn't work that way. It bits off huge, and I mean, huge chunks, and then starts sifting through it. It's both a blessing and a curse. When I was studying Philosophy at university, it was a blessing because there is so much information you have to keep in your head when explaining verbally extemeley complex connections, to the extent that I could digest and compile elaborate and complex ideas while citing page numbers and paragraphs to support my claims from multiple books and essays--without those books or essays on me--while in classroom. It was a curse because I had to really learn to "slow down" on essay tests in order to get each step, each piece of my knowledge that was in my head, in the essay and not leave important steps out.
Anyway, for what it's worth, and I hope I didn't scare anyone off here or offend anyone. I'm ready to get back to work! I hope you'll still help me.
BTW--Do any of you have any links that are current that talk specifically about RAW Photoshop workflow and color calibration? The one's I've read are not really comprehensive all in one essays. All seems to leave some necessary information out of the loop.
