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Author Topic: Help to my first b&w processing  (Read 2014 times)

bambanx

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Help to my first b&w processing
« on: July 31, 2014, 02:16:22 am »

Hello, i am about to develop my first b&w roll
film , tmax 400
accoding with this chart must be to 6.75minutes on 20celcius?
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=Tri-X+400&Developer=D-76&mdc=Search&TempUnits=C

the only chemicals i have is kodak 76 powder developer and the same but fixer in powder too.

After develop in the 1step how many time i must use water tap for stop? (I dont have stop bath chemical) I have a paterson washer hose can be useful here? and in what temperature?
in the 3- step the fixer i must disolute? How many time i must use it on my tank and using what temperature?
can u give me a hand guys please.
thanks guys
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DanielStone

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 02:41:36 am »

1. D-76 is a great developer. Very versatile, and works very well for almost every type of b/w film out there. I use it regularly.

*NOTE: When I mix up a gallon of D-76 solution, I use WARM(approx 80ºF) water to mix it. Warm water aids in fully dissolving the powdered chemistry fully. I then mix it(I use a very large Pyrex laboratory glass beaker so I can see it, but that's not necessary) and let it cool down. The chemistry, if left tightly sealed, will keep for a pretty long amount of time. Personally, I prefer to use D-76 at a 1:1 dilution (1 part D-76 pre-mixed stock solution -to- 1 equal part tap water) for Tmax films, but this is something you'd need to experiment with to determine if what you prefer. Straight(so no extra mix with water) D-76 works well too, but I like to double my D-76 solution even further, so I settled on using the 1:1 dilution.*

2. Use the SAME temperature for all steps, pre-wash/wet(if you do one) all the way to the photo flo. It's not completely "necessary", but it makes things easier.
3. I use 2-30 second (so 1 minute total) water baths as a stop. I fill the tank, agitate for 30s, then dump the water out. Refill, and repeat. I start the timer once the tank is full
4. I use fixer straight, as I mix up a solution for each roll/tank quantity I'm planning to process.

The Paterson washer hose can work fine for use during the wash/stop step. However, some(including myself) who live in more "dry" climates with less rainfall, use alternative methods of washing our film. Instead of running water continuously, I use successive water baths, and rely on the extra fixer to dissipate into the water, and with each successive bath(read up on the "Ilford washing method" here: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/photocommunity/forums/theforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6877 ) the amount of residual fixer is reduced(and eventually eliminated completely, resulting in an "archival" wash, albeit with MUCH less fresh water consumed :)!)

Sorry for the "wordy" answer, but as you might have found out, B/W processing CAN be HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE/PERSONAL in terms of preferences from one person to another. If you decide to continue processing your own film, then you'll need to develop your own times and working style. Using the manufacturers(Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, etc.'s) recommended times/instructions as a starting point is very good for a beginner.

Lastly, you might want to hop over onto the www.apug.org forum. That forum and many of its users are highly dedicated film/darkroom users, and there are MANY threads chock-full of useful information you can read through. This forum, while it's great for digital and tech-savvy folks, is a bit stale for film-related talk. There might be an appreciation for it's use, but finding folks here who are willing to give out VAST amounts of help relating to film and it's inherent benefits/options will be really tough compared to APUG. Get on over there and do some reading :)!

best of luck

Dan
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 04:30:35 am »

Excellent post above just note everything you do, so, at what point you start the time when you add developer/fixer. It doesn't matter if it is as you start pouring in or when the tank is full just do it the same each time for consistency, applies to all steps.
I use one water stop, in, agitate, out,  there you go, we all do things slightly differently, but always use Ilford wash steps.
Final point, agitation, you are aiming to re-distribute the chemicals in solution around the film without subjecting the film to crashing breakers on the sea shore, you are not mixing a cocktail, be positive but be gentle and again consistent.
OK not the final point, temperature for developer is critical for consistency, (within 1 degree, not a tenth of a degree) much less so for fixer, wash etc a couple of degrees at least out is not a disaster for those steps, don't get hung up on it. I have never seen reticulation in a modern film emulsion unless induced deliberately (when way, way too hot).

When you have mixed D76 wait, fresh solutions can be very active, overactive indeed. It keeps well when sealed so wait overnight, fixer mix no issues. Personally I re-use fixer, and developers, but it's up to you, use one shot to start. I am fond of TD-201, similar to D-23, and have run up to 30 rolls through a batch, just to see. It gets cruddy and time is increased but it still works. (Note developers like HC110 are strictly one shot)
Some people like to run only one developer, ever, personally I love experimenting, there are so many recipes out there. Currently using Pyrocat HD, see Flickr.

Practice loading spirals first, start in the light then practice in the dark, don't have critical shots on your first rolls just shoot to see how it all works, HAVE FUN.

Read this useful guide:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

Lots of my B/W work, all for fun not pecuniary gain, on the Flickr link below.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:35:15 am by Chris Livsey »
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eronald

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 01:53:25 pm »

the single critical thing that is not in instructions is to get rid of air bubbles on the film. presoak with a wetting agent!

Edmund
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 03:15:54 pm »

the single critical thing that is not in instructions is to get rid of air bubbles on the film. presoak with a wetting agent!

Edmund

With two bath developers that is not a good idea. First bath soaks the developer into the emulsion, second bath activates it. Pre-soak blocks the developer getting in, in that case. I know D76 is not in that class that but it is not a general rule you can apply.
Note most film makers do not recommend a pre-soak, some do for specific films.
I am not totally against the practice, I am using it with the Pyrocat HD at the moment, but a generalised statement can lead a newcomer astray. I also find a pre-soak with wetting agent useful for stand development.
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DanielStone

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 05:45:47 pm »

the single critical thing that is not in instructions is to get rid of air bubbles on the film. presoak with a wetting agent!

Edmund

I have attempted this multiple times, and to be quite frank, it screwed the pooch more than anything else. Air bubbles galore.
Straight water works much better, and has lower viscosity than water w/ a wetting agent, so potential carryover/residual wetting agent into the developer is not a good idea.

Ilford has made mention before about NOT using a pre-wet bath, but I've never experienced an issue.
PROPER agitation is key, especially during the developer stage. Giving the tank a good tap after inverting,etc. will help dispel potential air bubbles/bells that might cling to the film's surface.

-Dan
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eronald

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 07:46:49 pm »

I have attempted this multiple times, and to be quite frank, it screwed the pooch more than anything else. Air bubbles galore.
Straight water works much better, and has lower viscosity than water w/ a wetting agent, so potential carryover/residual wetting agent into the developer is not a good idea.

Ilford has made mention before about NOT using a pre-wet bath, but I've never experienced an issue.
PROPER agitation is key, especially during the developer stage. Giving the tank a good tap after inverting,etc. will help dispel potential air bubbles/bells that might cling to the film's surface.

-Dan

I think the necessity varies with use case ie. developer, water hardness, film type etc. What is essential is to do a few trial films in reproducible conditions before anything important.

Edmund
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 04:53:07 am »

I preferred to use a pre soak, but add 20s to 30s to the developer time. Just plain water.

The chemistry is sensitive to PH. Developer is an alkaline. This can obviously be affected by the PH of tap water. Best use distiller water if you can. A very small amount of vinegar in water can work as a stop bath. The advantage over water is it stops development more quickly with the ph change than does water making the timing of the developer more accurate. Also the rapid change in PH from the developer to the fixer which is an acid can cause problems. A stop bath alleviated this.

Consistency of method is the big thing. Agitation, temp, dilution, time all need to be consistent.
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eronald

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 07:23:50 am »


Consistency of method is the big thing. Agitation, temp, dilution, time all need to be consistent.

And trials, trials, trials until you have it down right.

I wonder whether even for a beginner it doesn't make sense to just buy a machine -I've heard they exist, in my time they weren't for hobbyists - and follow the instructions - all components in the process are then guaranteeed standard and compatible. My school had a machine, I had to use it once, it was amazing how easy the whole process became.

Edmund
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 07:47:29 am »


I wonder whether even for a beginner it doesn't make sense to just buy a machine
Edmund

I AM the machine.
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eronald

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 07:55:27 am »

I AM the machine.


I think we need a sound-track for this post :)

Edmund
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 09:47:33 am »

Problem with machines is they were designed for volume work mostly. Also to be honest nothing ever beat an experienced person doing the job by hand. I say this having spent almost 20 years in the photo finishing industry. It was my forts career until Photoshop and Kodak DCS cameras took over my world.
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eronald

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Re: Help to my first b&w processing
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 02:28:29 pm »

Frankly, I would go for a C41 process BW film, give it to the local minilab, and scan it in.

I used to shoot hassy slides, in Japan it was good, but in France development was expensive, film got damaged systematically, and I was always made to feel I wasn't "pro" enough and they were doing me a favor (!) by developing.  Moving to digital allowed me to get rid of the snobs and get clean results for "free" on my own timetable.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:33:27 pm by eronald »
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