Gaza's on-going Palestinian civilians Killing

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...  Petty and personal attacks. The intelligent solution would be getting rid of the people who are nasty and unpleasant actually.

Amen, brother!

You mean people who call other forum members "literally stupid... apologist for rapists... very deeply and very unpleasantly misogynistic,” to quote just a few latest examples? You  mean people who say that, but then claim it isn't a personal attack, just an accurate description of those other members' behavior? You mean people that usurp the role of the judge, jury and executioner for themselves in determining what constitutes such a behavior and thus justifies the name calling?

[Manoli]

Isaac,

Refrain from selectively quoting when your sole intention is to put a 'spin' on what I said. My quote has no bearing on your post, which could easily have been made in and of itself.

For reference the full quote was:

Note, for the purposes of this discussion, Hamas should be considered a radical Islamic terrorist group.

Yes, they should.

So were the IRA, a terrorist group. Yet now they sit in the British parliament and Stormont (or rather the political wing, Sinn Fein, do). You may well recall that the IRA were largely funded by the USA.

As The Times, today reports :

‘We were dying anyway. What else could we do but fight?’

Despite the devastation in Gaza, Hamas fighters are being hailed as heroes by Palestinians who were already living in poverty and squalor : during a month of vicious combat with Israel’s vastly superior forces, more than 1,900 Palestinians — many of them civilians — have been killed and 10,000 wounded. Entire neighbourhoods lie in ruin; at least 65,000 people are without homes.
--
Win the hearts and minds of the moderates and the radicals will fail.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Win the hearts and minds of the moderates and the radicals will fail.

I happened to come across Fareed Zakaria's recent commentary on CNN about the above concept:

"The trouble is, there aren't that many moderates left"

(quoted as I remember it).

[Manoli]

"Hamas sources in Gaza say 18 people suspected of collaborating with Israel have been executed."

I'm not sure why this surprises you, Isaac. The article you link to ends with

After the first 11 executions, Hamas warned that "the same punishment will be imposed soon on others".  It added that "the current circumstances forced us to take such decisions", suggesting a link between the executions and the killing of the three senior Hamas leaders.

From the Hamas point of view, at war with Israel, such action - collaborating with the enemy - was presumably perceived as treason. Treason, in many Middle Eastern and Muslim countries is punishable by death. As it is in the USA (Article III, Section 3 - of the Constitution). In Europe the death penalty has been abolished.


Wikipedia:

In the areas controlled by the Palestinian National Authority, it is treason to give assistance to Israeli troops without the authorization of the Palestinian Authority or to sell land to Jews (irrespective of nationality) and also non-Jewish Israeli citizens under the Palestinian Land Laws, as part of the PA's general policy of discouraging the expansion of Israeli settlements. Both crimes are capital offences subject to the death penalty [...] Likewise, in the Gaza Strip under the Hamas led government, any sort of cooperation or assistance to Israeli forces during military actions is also punishable by death.

[Isaac]

I'm not sure why this surprises you, Isaac.

I'm not sure why you wish to suppose that it surprises me.

I've twice quoted the summary findings of the UN report, for 14 to 21 November 2012, which among other things says --

"48. Palestinian armed groups … seven alleged  collaborators held in [De Facto Authorities] detention facilities were summarily executed, constituting a violation of their right to life and of international humanitarian law."

[texshooter]

My baby is more innocent than your baby.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

My baby is more innocent than your baby.

About hundred times more.

[BernardLanguillier]

About hundred times more.

Not a problem for Isaac.

He has chosen a simple line of defense "both parties are equally guilty" and has not moved an inch since then. He reminds me of the right wing Israeli falcons he seems to be representing.

I don't expect him to show any public display of understanding that their very attitude is the root cause of the problem at hand.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Isaac]

He has chosen a simple line of defense "both parties are equally guilty" and has not moved an inch since them. He reminds me of the righted wing Israeli falcons he seems to be representing.

"Opposing the actions of [Hamas] in Gaza does not require [pro]-Israel sentiments nor racism. … All it takes is an objective look at the situation.

You accusations are just shocking and utterly unacceptable [Bernard] and only weaken your position as they paint you in very unfavorable light."

"Regardless of who started this latest round, attacks targeting civilians violate basic humanitarian norms. All attacks, including reprisal attacks, that target or indiscriminately harm civilians are prohibited under the laws of war, period."

Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director, Human Rights Watch

[BernardLanguillier]

Running out of steam Isaac? Even your partial quotation out of context are loosing relevance here.

How about just giving up on your bias and joining us on the bright side of the force?

You can do it!

Cheers,
Bernard

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Isaac vs. Bernard... hmmm, seems like we, the children of LuLa, are the victims of that war 

[mezzoduomo]

Isaac vs. Bernard... hmmm, seems like we, the children of LuLa, are the victims of that war 

Won't somebody please close this sucker down?

[Isaac]

[Isaac] has chosen a simple line of defense "both parties are equally guilty"…

No, I have not said "both parties are equally guilty"; nor have I said one is more guilty or less guilty than the other.

Again - Israeli and Palestinian groups are both guilty.

[Manoli]

This thread has degenerated into petty bickering and posts that seemingly serve only only to nit-pick and engender an adverse reaction.

The conflict has created heated debate, highlighted a deepening division between Europe and America, and poses a dilemma for many diaspora Jews, well articulated by Antony Lerman in the NYT - 'The End of Liberal Zionism'

Bernard,
You're the OP - time to lock the thread before the posts that actually contributed to this discussion get drowned in a sea of irrelevance and a 'tit-for-tat' retrospective ?

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard,
You're the OP - time to lock the thread before the posts that actually contributed to this discussion get drowned in a sea of irrelevance and a 'tit-for-tat' retrospective ?

Yep, done.

Cheers,
Bernard