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Author Topic: Macon Stillwater  (Read 2852 times)

Todd Suttles

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Macon Stillwater
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:04:53 pm »

Would appreciate C&C on this with regards to balance and composition- which is what I am working on currently. Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
-t
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Chris Calohan

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 02:06:40 pm »

Your blacks are a bit blocked up.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 02:49:43 pm »

Your blacks are a bit blocked up.

And it's a bit flat and generally miserable. And you have dust spots on your sensor.

Composition and balance look OK to me.

Jeremy
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louoates

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 03:06:42 pm »

Balance and composition are fine. But without content they mean little. Not sure you can learn the first two without the third.
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Todd Suttles

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 06:09:36 pm »

Thanks, now I know. Appreciate the C&C -t
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KirbyKrieger

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 07:24:13 pm »

Previous comments in your thread seem mean-spirited:  judgements rendered but not explained.  While one must always find one's own path, a little shared light on the forest floor is a lot more helpful than being tripped in the dark.

1. Clean your sensor.  Instructions are usually in the camera manual.  Plenty of guides on-line.  One day you may have to wet-clean a sensor, but it looks like a proper blowing would suffice. 
2. Learn to remove dust-on-sensor spots with software.  It's quick and excellent.
3. Walk the picture with your eyes.  First, let them wander — how are you, the artist, directing the viewer's experience of the picture?  Is there _anything_ you can remove — by cropping — that doesn't detract from the picture?  If so, crop it.  Second, walk the edges of the framing — does the placement of the edges add to the effect you want? detract?  Third, ask yourself: what does this picture mean (or, possible, "feel")?  Am I communicating that meaning (or "feeling") to my viewer?  Fourth, do something else.  Then come back to your picture, and take the whole in at once.  Is it special?  Communicative?  Evocative?  Does it provide pleasure or information?  How?

What do _you_ like about it?

Why?

My take: 
• The darkest darks are too widespread and detract from the forms they would be better off helping to depict. 
• The sky is indistinct and seems to sit more as stains on the picture plane than as forms in space. 
• The way the contours in the sky reflect the contours of the tree-line is, in this picture, not helpful.  (In other pictures there may be wit in it, but you haven't thematized either contours or wit.) 
• The focus is indeterminate (wind?).  Photography provides enormous amounts of detail, but very few actual areas one controls (as opposed to filling a canvas with colored mud, for instance, which provides detail grudgingly but allows enormous control).  Focus, out-of-focus, and the transitions between them should be thematized aspect of every picture you make with a camera.
• The design (the arrangement of shapes on the picture plane) is dull from top-to-bottom.  (It's OK from left-to-right.)  Why did you include the foliage crossing the bottom edge picture right?
• The composition (the arrangement of forms in the space depicted) is good, with the exception of the picture-left edge.  First, that edge feels like an awkward place to end the "box of space" of the picture.  Second, the individual forms near and at the edge aren't treated sensitively enough.  The snag at the water's surface, and the lighter branch that arcs over the water (and up from below in the reflection) are too important to be where they are in the composition.   Either move the edge, or change the forms' visual weights.
_But_ the composition leads my eye back in space, from each side, to —  ??? — an area of completely indistinct grays.  It's like reading a paper left on a bus, getting caught up in a front-page story, and finding the continuation missing.
_And_ the water in the foreground rounds downwards.  Generally, with water, the picture is stronger when the ground plane continues to project straight towards the viewer.  Crop above the downward inflection of the ground plane, unless you want to use this round-down to aesthetic effect.
• (Relatively minor:) The exposure seems to have been made with the camera tilted down a small amount.  Small deviations from plumb and level are usually discomfiting.  Make the line-of-sight either horizontal, or not horizontal, but not close-to-horizontal.  (NB: this can be fixed with software.)

Good things:
- Variety of plant forms and luminance.
- I like the lighter form of the far bank as it travels back in space.  I like that there are two ranks of trees (an upper and lower).
- The surface of the water is among the successful parts of the picture, for me.  There _is_ something there.  Find out why.

HTH.  It is nowhere near as bad a picture as one would think reading the comments.  There is a good deal to work with, both before and behind the camera.

—Kirby.

William Walker

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 05:34:37 am »

It would be interesting to see what you might have had had you tilted the camera ever so slightly down. I think the foreground - the reflections in the water - might have been a little more interesting than the sky (which would have been in the reflection anyway!).

Just a thought...

William

PS. Those sensor stains/dust definitely were the first things to catch my eye.
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Todd Suttles

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 09:16:38 am »


...  My take: 
• The darkest darks....

—Kirby.
Kirby-
Thanks for taking the time to tell me all of this. It was very helpful to see how you analyzed the image. I will study this and try to apply it forward.
Thanks, -t
PS I don't think anyone was being mean spirited; frustrated with me if anything because they have all been helpful
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luxborealis

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 03:59:31 pm »


3. Walk the picture with your eyes.  First, let them wander — how are you, the artist, directing the viewer's experience of the picture?  Is there _anything_ you can remove — by cropping — that doesn't detract from the picture?  If so, crop it.  Second, walk the edges of the framing — does the placement of the edges add to the effect you want? detract?  Third, ask yourself: what does this picture mean (or, possible, "feel")?  Am I communicating that meaning (or "feeling") to my viewer?  Fourth, do something else.  Then come back to your picture, and take the whole in at once.  Is it special?  Communicative?  Evocative?  Does it provide pleasure or information?  How?

What do _you_ like about it?

Why?

—Kirby.

Very helpful, Kirby. This should be required reading before any photos are posted!

Note on the "specs" - not all appear to be sensor dust. Some of them are bits floating in the still water (the in focus ones!). Get rid of them, too, unless you want the contrasting effect of stillness and annoying floating bits (like a beer can in a grand vista landscape) that grate on my anally retentive teeth.
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mal mcilwraith

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 04:34:20 pm »

Kirby

Terrific comment - I probably need to take on more than half of that in my own photography.

I saw the image from a different view point - it is like a Rorschach ink spot - for my imagination. I would add a light grey vignette and allow the trees and reflections to hang in space.

Yes I know this is probably not why you took the photo - but it did get me thinking and I like images that inspire me.


Thank You.
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KirbyKrieger

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 07:32:42 pm »

Very helpful, Kirby. This should be required reading before any photos are posted!

Note on the "specs" - not all appear to be sensor dust. Some of them are bits floating in the still water (the in focus ones!). Get rid of them, too, unless you want the contrasting effect of stillness and annoying floating bits (like a beer can in a grand vista landscape) that grate on my anally retentive teeth.

Thanks for the compliment (and for reading  :) ).  Ditto to mal mcilwraith.

I _like_ the bits held up by the surface tension of the water, very much.  I like the visual surface tension they provoke between seeing the water as a thing with a smooth textured skin, and the space depicted in the water by the light reflected from the water's surface.  (I very much don't like that the photographer has not handled focus and exposure in a way to properly thematize this   ;) .  I'm nonplussed by the ghostly bits that seem to float just below the surface.)   The inclusion of actual sensor specks has been, by my meter, suitably remonstrated.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 07:36:45 pm by KirbyKrieger »
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owenn01

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 06:45:05 am »

Hi Todd,

Difficult to add much beyond what has been said already (and so well in kirby's case!) but I thought I would add a few words from my perspective.

I think the reflection idea is perfect for the scene - the horizon is straight through the middle (or as near as can be) and this creates a neat 'fold line' through the image. The reflection itself is oh so close to 100% - say, 99.8% - I would just loose the encroaching leaf and twig on the bottom of the frame edge to make it a complete mirror of the upper section. The exposure and the way you've dealt with the brightness of the sky and the shadows works well - detail in both with, perhaps, just a little cloud definition missing in the reflection that seems to be present in the upper part of the image. What I do like, however, is the detail and the shapes that these trees and their reflections create in the water - I suspect this is much more successful in B&W than it would ever have been in colour for example.

I think I would dare anyone not to have taken the scene as we see here and it works pretty well for me.

Thanks for sharing and kind regards, N.
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mal mcilwraith

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 01:31:04 pm »

Todd

I said you had inspired me and here is the first result. Not sure if it is the done thing to extend your thread by posting one of my own images - but consider this a tribute to your image.

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Todd Suttles

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Re: Macon Stillwater
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 07:49:30 pm »

Thanks everyone who continues to post to this thread.

I just revisited it expecting it to be dead. Each comment has been helpful.

You all are much appreciated for taking the time to have thoughts and share them. I am especially glad some realized the debris on the water was not sensor spots (a disadvantage of viewing online Vs in print I'm afraid).

I know everyone disagrees about my decision to leave the little branch in frame, lower right- but on paper, and to me only I guess, I feel it places me as viewer on the bank of the pond (instead of floating mid-air) and adds weight to the perpendicular 2/3 composition line.

Thnx- t
PS: Kirby, still studying it. Thanks again. very, very helpful
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