Another up-res question...

[William Walker]

I know there are two other threads on this general topic - this is slightly different.

I use Lightroom and am happy with that...my question is this:

Once I have decided to print an image that is say, 200% larger than native resolution, how can I go about making an ACCURATE test print of just a section of that print to get an idea of the quality of the finished print - without having to make a huge print?

In other words, I want to make an A4 size print of a critical area of an ultimate A1 print, showing me exactly what that area will look like on the larger print.

I would obviously have to do all this in Lightroom so that I can see exactly how Lightroom is handling the up-res.

I hope that makes sense!

William

[Garnick]

I know there are two other threads on this general topic - this is slightly different.

I use Lightroom and am happy with that...my question is this:

Once I have decided to print an image that is say, 200% larger than native resolution, how can I go about making an ACCURATE test print of just a section of that print to get an idea of the quality of the finished print - without having to make a huge print?

In other words, I want to make an A4 size print of a critical area of an ultimate A1 print, showing me exactly what that area will look like on the larger print.

I would obviously have to do all this in Lightroom so that I can see exactly how Lightroom is handling the up-res.

I hope that makes sense!

William

Hi William,

This would seem to be a rather simple question to resolve.  However, considering my limited experience with LR, I'm sure it isn't as simple as I might imagine.  I print from Photoshop, since the majority of my printing is for my customers, and not my own work.  I have LR 5 but haven't been able to gain the experience needed to become proficient with it yet.  Therefore my answer would be to simply do an 8x10(or 11) crop of the crucial area you want to see and print that.  If that isn't convenient in LR, open the file in PS and crop there.  Export back to LR and print.  That should show you all you need for that size print.  I hope this helps.

Gary  

[Paul2660]

This is one issue that I run into also, and it will be interesting to see others responses. I have long figured there is a way to do this in LR 100%, but just have not figured out a way.

Example, I often take a 6" x 40" crop from a larger print, mainly on canvas to test the results.  In LR, if you make the cell 6 x 40 (for printing on a 44" roll), you can't get the image in the cell any larger than the cell predefined size.  So the largest that LR would print in this case is 6" x 40" but not a piece of the image from 36 x 72, so you can't get a good idea of the look of the final uprez by LR. 

What I do for now, is crop the image in CC at 6" x 40", on a image that is 36 x 72 at either 180 or 240dpi.  I then import the crop into LR, and print it on a cell sized 6 x 40 at 360ppi.  By doing this I believe you are now seeing the part of the final image @ 36 x 72 360ppi, as if you cut a 6" x 40" piece out of it.  It's an added step but the only way I have figured out how to get the crop to work.  I don't know of way to crop the image in LR and then print the crop at this size.  The crop tool in LR doesn't have any numerical scales that I can tell, so it's an arbitrary crop, i.e done visually.

Paul

[Garnick]

This is one issue that I run into also, and it will be interesting to see others responses. I have long figured there is a way to do this in LR 100%, but just have not figured out a way.

Example, I often take a 6" x 40" crop from a larger print, mainly on canvas to test the results.  In LR, if you make the cell 6 x 40 (for printing on a 44" roll), you can't get the image in the cell any larger than the cell predefined size.  So the largest that LR would print in this case is 6" x 40" but not a piece of the image from 36 x 72, so you can't get a good idea of the look of the final uprez by LR. 

What I do for now, is crop the image in CC at 6" x 40", on a image that is 36 x 72 at either 180 or 240dpi.  I then import the crop into LR, and print it on a cell sized 6 x 40 at 360ppi.  By doing this I believe you are now seeing the part of the final image @ 36 x 72 360ppi, as if you cut a 6" x 40" piece out of it.  It's an added step but the only way I have figured out how to get the crop to work.  I don't know of way to crop the image in LR and then print the crop at this size.  The crop tool in LR doesn't have any numerical scales that I can tell, so it's an arbitrary crop, i.e done visually.

Paul

Hmmmm...as I suspected it's the cropping that's the issue in LR.  It would seem that you(Paul) have a workaround for that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to do the same in PS and then export back to LR for printing.  You mention cropping in CC, but which CC App is that, LR or PS?  If it is CC LR then obviously that version has made the crop tool more flexible.  Again, my ignorance of LR is showing, but one day I will catch up when time permits and I find that LR makes more sense for my own work, or for more critical customer work.

Gary   

[Paul2660]

Sorry, I tend to use "CC" for photoshop, my mistake.  I use Photoshop (included in the CC version for photographers, Photoshop and LR).

I have tried to figure out a way to do this in LR for a while, but never have figured it out.  LR never allows a 100% size view in the print module.  What would be nice is the ability to load the image at 100% view over a preset cell, in this case 6 x 40 and move the image around the cell until you get the part of the image you want to test.  However I guess this would mean needing some type of uprez on the fly, so that currently won't work.

Paul

[PeterAit]

Make a virtual copy of the image and crop it to (say) 1/4 of the main image, keeping the most critical area if possible. Then print it at 1/4 the size that you want for the main image using the same output resolution and other print settings.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hi William,

Maybe this tutorial will spark some ideas, combined with cropped virtual copies, and multiple print-runs on the same piece of paper ...

Cheers,
Bart

[huguito]

I do the test of a section by just choosing a section smaller than the image, no cropping.
Lets say the image is 17 x 22 at 360 dpi, and I want to make a test that fit on a 8.5 x 11.
No change on resolution.
All you do, in the print section, is select a paper size of 8,5 x 11, the image will spill out of the limits, you can them move the image around so the section you want to test shows.
A warning will follow telling you the image is bigger than the paper and some cropping will occur.

Hugo

[Paul2660]

I do the test of a section by just choosing a section smaller than the image, no cropping.
Lets say the image is 17 x 22 at 360 dpi, and I want to make a test that fit on a 8.5 x 11.
No change on resolution.
All you do, in the print section, is select a paper size of 8,5 x 11, the image will spill out of the limits, you can them move the image around so the section you want to test shows.
A warning will follow telling you the image is bigger than the paper and some cropping will occur.

Hugo

If I try this on a image that should be  30 x 45. 
I loaded a paper size of 8.5 x 11.  This puts a limit on the "cell" size of 8.5 x 11, thus you can't overlay a 30 x 45 image on a 8.5 x 11 cell and move around the image as lightroom errors out when you try to increase the "cell" size.  There is no way to increase print size as cell and print are tied together from what I have found.

I have an image I want to print at 30 x 40
I drag that image to the cell, and I get the normal small thumbnail of the image
on the far right where it listed cell dimensions, if I try to make the cell 30 x 45 it errors out as LR is seeing the cell as paper size already selected. 
I can't find a way to tell LR the image is 30 x 45 and I want it to allow me to move around the 8.5 x 11 cell to, thus selecting a test crop of 8.5 x 11.  You are limited to selected cell size.
Zoom to fill won't fix this as it' going to only fill the cell size. 

Paul

[hugowolf]

It has always been a problem with the LR Print Module, and one that Adobe wants to ignore because it doesn't fit in with their silly model.

You can do it with a trip to Photoshop and back: Edit in Photoshop > Edit a copy with LR edits, then in PS do an Image > Image Size, then make sure Resample Image is unchecked and set the dimensions to the size (and units) of the final full sized print (not the crop). And then use the rectangular selection tool (I think Adobe calls it a marquee tool) with Fixed Size selected (from the choice of Normal, Fixed Ratio, and Fixed Size), then set the size and units to the crop you want – taking care to make any allowances for margins, etc. Then back to LR.

With an external editor, you will need a calculator, and it is still going to be an approximation in the Development Module, because you can't crop in the Print Module.

Brian A

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Print it to file first, then print a crop to paper.

[hugowolf]

Print it to file first, then print a crop to paper.

Hmm, I never thought of that. I guess the only downsides would be its jpeg instead of raw, so possible artifacts and 8 bit only.

Actually, thinking about it, I don't see what you gain. You still have to approximate the crop. There are no dimensions inside LR except pixels. You can define the output dimensions, but that isn't much help.

Brian A

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the only downsides would be its jpeg instead of raw, so possible artifacts and 8 bit only.

There is no difference between jpeg and raw (or TIFF).

... You still have to approximate the crop. There are no dimensions inside LR except pixels. You can define the output dimensions, but that isn't much help.

Not sure I understand the problem of "approximation" or why dimensions (output) wouldn't help. William will print to A1 file, then print A4 crop from that file. What is the problem with that?

[hugowolf]

There is no difference between jpeg and raw (or TIFF).

Well, no: there are considerable differences between those formats

Not sure I understand the problem of "approximation" or why dimensions (output) wouldn't help. William will print to A1 file, then print A4 crop from that file. What is the problem with that?

Well, would you care to elucidate the steps involved in getting an accurate A4 crop from the centre of and A1 image in LR? I am using Lr 4.4, perhaps there is something new in v5?

Brian A

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Well, no: there are considerable differences between those formats

Well, would you care to elucidate the steps involved in getting an accurate A4 crop from the centre of and A1 image in LR? I am using Lr 4.4, perhaps there is something new in v5?

Brian A

There is exactly zero difference when it comes to printing. Create a 100% jpeg and a TIFF, import them into Photoshop into separate layers and enable Difference view. There is none.

Why does it have to be from the center? You would actually want to find a portion of the image that contains important details for comparison or analysis. You would then create a crop with an A4 ratio and then print that crop with the same ppi as the intended final image (say 300ppi).

[hugowolf]

There is exactly zero difference when it comes to printing. Create a 100% jpeg and a TIFF, import them into Photoshop into separate layers and enable Difference view. There is none.

You can't have 16 bit (or 32 bit) and 8 bit layers.

Why does it have to be from the center? You would actually want to find a portion of the image that contains important details for comparison or analysis. You would then create a crop with an A4 ratio and then print that crop with the same ppi as the intended final image (say 300ppi).

But what if you want it from the middle. What if the middle is the best place to proof it.

It sounds like a good idea at first; it just doesn't pan out. Why actually bother to print the enlargement to a file and reimport it, when you could just do a 1:√2 crop from the original?

Brian A

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You can't have 16 bit (or 32 bit) and 8 bit layers.

And the significance of that is (for printing)? A few angels less dancing on the head of a pin? in other words, one has yet to demonstrate any significant difference between 16 bit and 8 bit printing. Not that would matter for William's stated goal, i.e., to see the effect of uprezzing.

But what if you want it from the middle. What if the middle is the best place to proof it.

What's preventing you to crop it from the middle as well!?

[William Walker]

Thank you to all who responded.

This is what I have done, please let me know if you can see a problem...

1)  Set the paper size to A0 in "Page Setup". (Or to whatever size you plan to print.)
2)  In Lightroom set "Cell Size" to 30"x45" (A0). (Or to whatever size you plan to print.)
3)  In Lightroom under "Print Job" I set:- "Print to jpeg"; "File Resolution" - "360 ppi"; "Print Sharpening" - "Off"; "JPEG Quality" - "100"; "16 Bit"- "On".
4)  Import the jpeg into Photoshop and confirm the size in "Image". Crop to A4 size (8.3" x 11.7") - save and open in Lightroom.
5)  Slight sharpen in "Develop" and open in "Print".
6)  Set paper size to A4 in "Page Setup". Set "Cell Size" to 8.3" X 11.7". "Print Job" - "Print to Printer"; "File Resolution" - "360"; "Print Sharpening" - "Standard"; "16 Bit"- "On"

I used Epson Ultra Smooth and am pleasantly surprised at the detail. You will note that when creating the jpeg, I did not sharpen - my reasoning being that it would be sharpened when it was printed.

Thanks again
William

[David Eckels]

Hi William,

Maybe this tutorial will spark some ideas, combined with cropped virtual copies, and multiple print-runs on the same piece of paper ...

Cheers,
Bart

Good tutorial Bart. Thanks.

[hugowolf]

This is what I have done, please let me know if you can see a problem...

My thoughts:
I don't see what you gain by printing to a file. Why not just directly go from the LR menu to Edit in Photoshop? That would also save you having to reimport the file back into Lr.
If you are going to print to a jpg, then I don't see what '16 bit' on would do; jpegs are 8 bits per channel.

Like I said before: direct from Lr to Ps via Edit In, change inch/cm dimensions to A0 without upping the rez, crop out an A4, then bawck to Lr.

Brian A