Best copal 0 lens btwn 50 and 120mm?

[BernardLanguillier]

Dear team,

I would be interested in the inputs of those shooting the best tech camera high end lenses.

With movements not being a major criteria, what is in your informed opinion the very best piece of glass btwn 50 and 120mm mountable in a copal 0.

Best means best resolution, lowest amount of optical aberations. The intent would be to use it the lens with a 35mm DSLR.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paul2660]

Bernard

I am testing with the Arca DSLR2 and Sony A7r currently.  The 60mm XL AND 90mm Rodenstock both are excellent. The issue you will find on shifts at least with the Sony sensor is the loss of color saturation on shifts much past 8mm. Some of this will be recovered with a LCC but not all. However so far I am getting good recovery working in C1. This appears to be from crosstalk.  

But both of these lenses Schneider 60mm XL and the 90 HR Rod are excellent for details and resolution. The Schneider 120mm APO aspheric is also an excellent lens to consider.

Paul

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard

I am testing with the Arca DSLR2 and Sony A7r currently.  The 60mm SK AND 90mm Rodenstock both are excellent. The issue you will find on shifts at least with the Sony sensor is the loss of color saturation on shifts much past 8mm. Some of this will be recovered with a LCC but not all. However so far I am getting good recovery working in C1. This appears to be from crosstalk. 

But both of these lenses 60mm SK and the 90 HR Rod are excellent for details and resolution. The 120SK aspheric is Aldo an excellent lens to consider.

Hi Paul,

Thanks!

Is this the Schneider 60mm your are talking about?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/829452-REG/Schneider_03_1066463_60_mm_f_5_6_Apo_Digitar.html

Thanks.

Regards,
Bernard

[DanielStone]

Bernard,
Just wondering, if you're going to be using a DSLR on the rear end, what is the need for a Copal 0 mounted lens? Unless you're doing high speed sync, where that extra stop might be needed?

Again, just wondering
A friend of mine uses a D800e on the Horseman VCC Pro camera, and uses enlarging lenses, in particular the 50, 80, 90 and 150mm APO-Rodagon-N line from Rodenstock. Superb lenses, and they all resolve extremely high levels of detail. Having the ability to perform movements(tilt and swing primarily) are a real benefit, allowing you to not need to stop down as far.

I've also heard of folks putting these enlarging lenses into barrel extension type helical focus mounts. You don't benefit from the movements, but you still get superb apo quality glass.

-Dan

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard,
Just wondering, if you're going to be using a DSLR on the rear end, what is the need for a Copal 0 mounted lens? Unless you're doing high speed sync, where that extra stop might be needed?

Hi Daniel,

The hope to find lenses even superior to the 35mm lenses I already own.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paul2660]

Bernard. Yes that's the one.   One note depending on the rig you use you may be limited 90mm or more.

With the Arca DSLR2 you are limited to 90mm or higher on a traditional DSLR body due to the depth of the mirror box. However on the Sony Ar7 you can get to 35mm with the 35XL Schneider.

Paul

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Bernard,

To me it seems that the Zeiss 135/2.0 APO and the Macro Planar 100/2.0 are excellent, I wouldn't expect to find better lenses for larger formats in absolute terms. Also, I guess that more Sigma Arts and Otuses are around the corner.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Daniel,

The hope to find lenses even superior to the 35mm lenses I already own.

Cheers,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

Of the lenses that I have used, I have to agree that the Roddie 90mm is the sharpest I have ever seen.  Focus fall off is not a problem I worry about until I hit 30mm of shift, and this is with the old version; not sure how they could have made it better.  Even then, it is a very little. 

I have never gotten aberrations with it either. 

One issue though, you have to be careful with nailing the focus.  The depth of field is not that great.  Also, if you try to use tilt to increase you DOF, you can get most of the ground in focus.  However, the tops of relatively close objects, like trees and light poles, will be out of focus.  But hey, it is a longer lens. 

[dchew]

Bernard,
I too just received the Rodi 90hr. It is for use with an Alpa STC and IQ180. To give you some context of my comparison, the other lenses I own (or have owned) are: Rodi 40hr, 70hr, 100hrS; SK 43xl, SK 150. All the lenses I own for this system I consider excellent except for the 100hrS - it is fine stopped down but not great wide open. I have not tried an Otus, but do have (or have tried) a mixture of Zeiss (21,35, 100/2.0 mp), Leica (WATE, 90 'cron) and Canon (90ts, 70-200 f/4is) glass that I use on my a7R (also the quite-good Sony 55 FE).

So far the 90hr is like nothing I've seen to date. Wide open it has a Leica-esque micro contrast (draw?) along with a Zeiss bite that goes all the way out to as far as I can shift it with the STC, 18mm. When I saw the first images from this lens, I just shook my head. Wonderful lens.

I am waiting on the SK60xl; should be here by the end of July. As Paul says it is supposed to be close, if not equally good (and cheaper!).

Dave

[Doug Peterson]

It should be said that all of the modern tech camera lenses are quite good compared to just about any other category of lenses.

But of those the following are the truly outstanding lenses:
- 32HR
- 60XL Super-Digitar
- 90HR-SW
- 120 APO

Most lenses are "excellent" in that they compare very favorably within their category of lenses (as in "excellent for an SLR wide-angle" or "excellent for a zoom lens"). But those four lenses stand as "excellent" no matter what (commercially available) lenses you compare them to. The only drawback at all of any of them is the 32HR exhibits modest complex distortion, which can be corrected with free utilities.

The 60XL is in my mind especially special in that it's moderate wide (for medium format), free of distortion, incredibly sharp even with large movements, and is still light and compact.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have enclosed the MTF curves for the Zeiss 100/2.0 at f/4 and the curves for the Schneider Apo Digitar 60/5,6 XL.

Please not that Schneider uses 15/30/60 lp/mm while Zeiss uses 10/20/40 lp/mm. So you would compare the second curve from Schneider to the third curve for the Zeiss.

I am not sure that this is the lens you are discussing, I found the info on Alpa's website. Schneider offers download links for spec sheets, but they are showing to dead links.


Best regards
Erik

Ps. Also note that the curves for the Schneider cover 120mm diameter while the Zeiss curves just covers 43 mm, the diagonal of 135 format.

Hi Bernard,

To me it seems that the Zeiss 135/2.0 APO and the Macro Planar 100/2.0 are excellent, I wouldn't expect to find better lenses for larger formats in absolute terms. Also, I guess that more Sigma Arts and Otuses are around the corner.

Best regards
Erik

[BernardLanguillier]

Thank you all, it very seems like the Schneider 60mm f5.6 APO digitar and the Rodenstock 90mm f5.6 HR SW are at the top of the game.

Cheers,
Bernard

[HarperPhotos]

Hi Bernard,

I  use the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon 75, 80, 90, 105 and 120mm lenses with my Horseman VCC pro adaptor and these lenses are tack sharp and do not have any optical aberrations. The 105mm is my favorite.

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/mediabase/original/e_Rodenstock_Printing_CCD_43-62__8230.pdf

Happy to take a raw shot with any of these lenses you like on a D800E and email the NEF file.

Cheers

Simon

[RobertJ]

So... what about that old 90mm HR Digaron-W, the one that started out as a "Sironar-Digital" then was rebranded as the red stripe HR?  Is the new one in a different league?

[Doug Peterson]

So... what about that old 90mm HR Digaron-W, the one that started out as a "Sironar-Digital" then was rebranded as the red stripe HR?  Is the new one in a different league?

Yes

[BernardLanguillier]

I  use the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon 75, 80, 90, 105 and 120mm lenses with my Horseman VCC pro adaptor and these lenses are tack sharp and do not have any optical aberrations. The 105mm is my favorite.

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/mediabase/original/e_Rodenstock_Printing_CCD_43-62__8230.pdf

Happy to take a raw shot with any of these lenses you like on a D800E and email the NEF file.

Thanks Simon.

Regards,
Bernard

[Josef_Meier]

I tested a lot of high resolution lenses for 35 mm DSLR.
All Rodenstock apo are top, followed by Schneider apo. Rare Zeiss Orthoplanar and S-Planar are fine as well but have different character.
XL and SW type from Schneider and Rodenstock have lower quality and are of course only intersting if you need big movements. (Wideangle design)

But the absolut masterpiece is the Rodenstock Linos Digaron 100mm. Unbeatable

[ErikKaffehr]

Bernard,

Could you explain the context? You obviously want to use a technical camera with a 135 sensor? But you are not interested in shift/image circle?

Best regards
Erik

Dear team,

I would be interested in the inputs of those shooting the best tech camera high end lenses.

With movements not being a major criteria, what is in your informed opinion the very best piece of glass btwn 50 and 120mm mountable in a copal 0.

Best means best resolution, lowest amount of optical aberations. The intent would be to use it the lens with a 35mm DSLR.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard,

Could you explain the context? You obviously want to use a technical camera with a 135 sensor? But you are not interested in shift/image circle?

Erik,

Tilt would be nice, I see no value in shift for what I do.

I am simply looking for the best possible lens to put in front of a D800/D810 sensor. I keep hearing that LF type digitar lenses are in a totally different league even compared to the best 35mm lenses such a the Otus of the Zeiss 135mm f2.0.

Cheers,
Bernard

[ErikKaffehr]

Thanks!

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

Tilt would be nice, I see no value in shift for what I do.

I am simply looking for the best possible lens to put in front of a D800/D810 sensor. I keep hearing that LF type digitar lenses are in a totally different league even compared to the best 35mm lenses such a the Otus of the Zeiss 135mm f2.0.

Cheers,
Bernard