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Author Topic: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber  (Read 9318 times)

stamper

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2014, 03:16:34 AM »

There is nothing more fun than to sit down and discuss photographs.  I enjoy this a lot when shooting too.  As anyone who has shot with me can attest I verbalize what I am seeing.  So, anytime any of you are in Indianapolis let me know, stop by and we can discuss photography to our hearts content and maybe even enjoy a glass of wine.  Or, come to one of the workshops that we do and we'll enjoy great discussions on numerous topics.  We might even have a laugh or two. 

Kevin



Does that include Ray? I would have thought by now he may have back peddled a bit after reflecting on his initial post but I unfortunately don't see any evidence. :(

mjrichardson

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2014, 12:08:20 PM »

Afternoon

This is not much of a discussion on the actual image, for what it's worth, I had very mixed emotions about the shot, actually I do on quite a few of Kevin's shots. My very first response was eek! The processing was fairly extreme to my eye but looking deeper, I really liked the viewpoint, the lines, the structure of the machinery, all really beautifully captured, the processing for me detracted rather than enhanced the view and it felt to me that it became less of a photograph and more of a graphic image if that makes sense. I find with heavier HDR that images become "flat" contrast is lost and there seems to be a loss of depth.

Kevin is a big boy and I'm sure he is not going to be bothered by the opinions of random people on the internet, I will say that I respect his desire to push things though, as photographers or artists surely we can do no more than produce images that we ourselves are happy with and then stand by them? Positive or negative, we should be happy that we did what we did for ourselves, once we start producing images in order to gain the most approval then surely we have lost something? I will also say that displaying photographs to photographers is always going to be tricky, we all have an opinion on how we would do things but it's all theoretical, the opinions of people who are not looking at the technical aspects will always be different and in many cases more relevant, particularly if they are handing over cash and taking the prints home!

I'd have loved to have been at that shoot, I like industrial structures, I liked looking at other shots from the same venue, Dave I think it was, it's a stunning place for sure if you like that sort of thing, I know my shots wouldn't have employed the same processing techniques but that's not to say they would have been better or worse, just different, my interpretation of what I was seeing.

Anyway, back to taking photographs and learning from others, that's what it's all about isn't it?

Mat

Oops, I realise that the discussion was about the Heavy Metal shot, I was thinking of the Pump House shot, sorry for mixing up! I still stand by my comments though when talking about a lot of the shots from this location.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:15:58 PM by mjrichardson »
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uaiomex

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2014, 12:06:48 PM »

Thank you Sharon. This is the most hilarious page over the entire internet I've ever had the luck to see.
Eduardo

 
This is an oldie but still so true - http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html


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Lesley

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2014, 07:48:27 PM »

Since Sharon posted  the link to the first part, I thought I'd add the link to the second part of TOP's critique of famous photographs.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/11/great-photographers-on-the-internet-part-ii/comments/page/2/

Enjoy

Lesley
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2014, 09:54:41 AM »

I was reading through this long thread and couldn't believe my eyes. In my view Kevin has made a beautiful picture and in this case I like his post processing and I think the presentation fits the subject very well. I would have been proud to have taken this picture.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2014, 11:01:13 AM »

Hi Hans,

Nice to hear…

My take is that we photographers have different approaches. Photography is much about perception and interpretation. Kevin's interpretations are often a bit excessive to me, but I feel it is an artistic freedom that everyone has.

Regarding the recent home page pictures here on LuLa I generally liked them, they were not over the edge to my mind.

By the way, this is my interpretation of a subject from your recent workshop:


Thanks for taking us to great places. Now, about the 2015 workshop, I really want to take part…

Best regards
Erik



I was reading through this long thread and couldn't believe my eyes. In my view Kevin has made a beautiful picture and in this case I like his post processing and I think the presentation fits the subject very well. I would have been proud to have taken this picture.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 11:04:35 AM by ErikKaffehr »
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2014, 07:31:21 AM »

Hi Hans,

Nice to hear…

My take is that we photographers have different approaches. Photography is much about perception and interpretation. Kevin's interpretations are often a bit excessive to me, but I feel it is an artistic freedom that everyone has.

Regarding the recent home page pictures here on LuLa I generally liked them, they were not over the edge to my mind.

By the way, this is my interpretation of a subject from your recent workshop:


Thanks for taking us to great places. Now, about the 2015 workshop, I really want to take part…

Best regards
Erik




Unless a photographer strives to do documentary photos, the editing and composition should be a result of the photographers artistic intent and therefore the final result should reflect the photographers vision. If this is agreed upon, it is not so strange that some comments would wildly disagree with a certain image of even a hole collection of them. I personally think there is value to be taken from even pictures where one does not like certain aspects and could be inspirational in such cases. So I think it is about having an open mind and get ideas from even what you dislike.

Personally I like some of Kevins pictures and some I like less, but I always look at them with interest as he does rather seldom publish snapshots. I don't know if this comments means anything to the naysayers in this thread (and I don't refer to you Erik).

I like your interpretation, Erik, even though it is a bit overdone   ;)

I'm also looking forward to 2015 and hope to see you again.



pcgpcg

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2014, 03:18:05 PM »

I love them! but, different strokes for different folks...
... I continually like to challenge myself, no matter what landscape I shoot and to present my work for others to enjoy (or not)...
Hooray for this!  If you don't go outside your comfort zone you don't grow. I once had an art teacher who challenged us to go find the most boring subject we could imagine and then use it to create a painting/drawing/photo that was truly exciting.  As an example he took us all outside and asked for suggestions.  Someone pointed to a crack in the sidewalk and he promptly set up a chair and went to work. An hour later he had produced a beautiful watercolor.  I'll never forget that.  It's often occurred to me that a painting of an inane object can be perceived in a much more accepting light than a photo, no matter how well done.

I think Kevin did a great job with heavy metal, but I understand that many people wouldn't care for it.  You can't please everyone of course, and ultimately it is oneself that is the most important critic. Thank heavens there are people who know that and happily proceed in spite of it.

I never did see the appeal of icebergs either... ;)
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Isaac

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2014, 03:52:26 PM »

Someone pointed to a crack in the sidewalk…

Have you seen these photos by Ernst Haas?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2014, 04:59:10 PM »

Have you seen these photos by Ernst Haas?

Or by this guy I stumbled upon on the Internet ;)

Fine_Art

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #70 on: July 05, 2014, 05:45:07 PM »

I searched for the image to see what the fuss was about. I like it, it is a strong image. I also agree to some extent with Ray that is is not a subject I would want to record. To me this image is a reminder of the lost humanity in many modern companies. If you study Japanese management systems this would be a prime example of what they would call 'no respect for the workers as humans'. This kind of image needs to be seen. If you look at very old industrial you see their struggle with technology. If you look at some modern work environments you see designs based on solid engineering (good) that never consider people have to be there all day, for a large chunk of their lives. The Charlie Chaplin film modern times was a comedy of the impact this type of thing had on him. He walks a round twitching, tightening imaginary bolts.

As analogy compare the Firth of Forth engineering



with the architecture of Caltrava for Ireland



Both are functional bridges.

So I look at some modern industrial photography with an eye for what needs to be changed.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2014, 05:55:26 PM »

I have to wonder what's the point of compering 19th century technology with 21st one?

Fine_Art

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2014, 06:45:58 PM »

I have to wonder what's the point of compering 19th century technology with 21st one?

Did you read the post?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2014, 07:29:02 PM »

Did you read the post?

Although this is a condescending question, I will answer it: yes, I did. A question like this presupposes that I either

- post carelessly and mindlessly, without reading first what I am posting about, or
- I did read, but wasn't capable of grasping the point that you so obviously stated

So, once again, the question is: what is the point of of compering 19th century technology with 21st one? To show the superiority (in terms of its human aspect) of the latter? Well, duh! That Japanese managerial and engineering philosophy of the 20th and 21st century is superior to their (and our) 19th century one? Well, duh!

The beauty and significance of the 19th and early 20th century engineering is to be seen within their respective centuries' ethos, not today standards. Compared with 18th century and earlier, it was a magnificent progress for the humanity, even with its child labor and 16-hour workdays. It was a historic step that enabled us to have the politically correct engineering of today.

So, yes, depending whether you see a glass as half-full or half-empty, you can see such machinery as a symbol of child labor or a symbol of humanity's historic progress. Or both, as most sensible people do, depending on context.

Not to mention that, with a keen and discerning eye, you can see beauty in almost anything.

Fine_Art

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2014, 09:13:51 PM »

Although this is a condescending question, I will answer it: yes, I did. A question like this presupposes that I either

- post carelessly and mindlessly, without reading first what I am posting about, or
- I did read, but wasn't capable of grasping the point that you so obviously stated

So, once again, the question is: what is the point of of compering 19th century technology with 21st one? To show the superiority (in terms of its human aspect) of the latter? Well, duh! That Japanese managerial and engineering philosophy of the 20th and 21st century is superior to their (and our) 19th century one? Well, duh!

The beauty and significance of the 19th and early 20th century engineering is to be seen within their respective centuries' ethos, not today standards. Compared with 18th century and earlier, it was a magnificent progress for the humanity, even with its child labor and 16-hour workdays. It was a historic step that enabled us to have the politically correct engineering of today.

So, yes, depending whether you see a glass as half-full or half-empty, you can see such machinery as a symbol of child labor or a symbol of humanity's historic progress. Or both, as most sensible people do, depending on context.

Not to mention that, with a keen and discerning eye, you can see beauty in almost anything.

I do not assume later works are better than earlier works. A lot of the best architecture we have was prior to modern engineering. Many towns in Europe have houses that have stood for centuries. It is very unlikely a typical house engineered today will last more than 50 years. That debate takes us far from the imagery of mid to late 20th century industry.

What is it that you see in industrial imagery? I think I outlined where it takes me.
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jfirneno

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2014, 04:26:56 PM »



So, this is starting to make some sense.  I'm looking at the point of view that is unsympathetic to the "Heavy Metal" photo.  I think the following quotes explain the problem:

Ray, “For me, the associations that Heavy Metal invoke are of a Dickensian, child slavery environment, an ear-damaging, constant clatter of machinery, and a drab, mind-numbing  decor.”

Fine Art, “To me this image is a reminder of the lost humanity in many modern companies.”

Those unsympathetic with the subject matter are highly sympathetic for the various victims of the industrial revolution.  Because of this they cannot see the photo as anything but an indictment of man's inhumanity to man.  Possibly it would help if they looked at it as a case of man's inhumanity toward sewerage.  The true victims of modern plumbing are the microbes exposed to high levels of chlorine and oxygen.

It would be equally absurd for someone to look at a photo of a redwood forest and be unable to see anything sympathetic because of the time he went to a woods and caught poison ivy.

Regards,
John
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BradSmith

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2014, 06:02:08 PM »

John,
You're absolutely right about the correct context of the waterworks image (assuming it needs a context).   I believe the Buffalo Waterworks is a part of the drinking water supply system.  About 25 years ago, I read an interesting book named "Risk Watch" that documented the history of "risk" to public health and human longevity.  It pointed out that the single most impactive advancement in human history regarding the mortality rate was the recognition that there were microorganisms in water that could cause disease/death.  And that "treatment" could kill or eliminate those microorganisms and eliminate the spread of those diseases. 

Water treatment - arguably the greatest single advancement in human history.

Brad

PS.....And now, maybe, can we return to photography????   Please
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Isaac

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2014, 02:21:59 PM »

What is it that you see in industrial imagery?

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Telecaster

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2014, 05:25:25 PM »

I find many of the photos in Edward Burtynsky's book Water to be very beautiful even though some are, in a literal sense, documents of industrial pollution. And old buildings falling apart, rusting metal, crumbling pavement...love it.

-Dave-
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jjj

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Re: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2014, 12:52:37 PM »

I do not assume later works are better than earlier works. A lot of the best architecture we have was prior to modern engineering.
TRANSLATION:A lot of the architecture I like was prior to modern engineering.
 :P

Quote
Many towns in Europe have houses that have stood for centuries. It is very unlikely a typical house engineered today will last more than 50 years.
I've lived in numerous old [European] houses and they may be still standing, but they certainly were not necessarily well built.
I currently live in a good solid Edwardian house and yet some of the brickwork at rear is simply dreadful and needed serious patching up when bath room was stripped back to the brick. Modern houses [in UK] certainly seem a lot better put together than many older ones, probably because building regs are more strict now.
Cowboy builders who do build crappy houses are certainly around, but are definitely not but a recent invention. Not to mention the large swathes of badly built buildings from ye good olde days that have been demolished because they were not fit for living in. Or need serious work doing to bring them up to decent [modern] conditions/standards.
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