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Author Topic: HDR for beginners  (Read 2918 times)

Frans Waterlander

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HDR for beginners
« on: June 23, 2014, 12:41:06 am »

I'd like to get some recommendations for books on HDR for beginners. I have zero experience in this area, but would like to understand how HDR can improve images beyond what can be done with traditional photography. No, I'm not interested in the grungy, surreal side of HDR, I hate that with a vengeance.
 I just spent $60 on Christian Bloch's The HDR Handbook 2.0 and I can't say that it was of much help. It lacks good examples of before and after for different situations and how to achieve it, so I still don't have a good feel for what I'm after: how exactly does HDR help to do what can't be done traditionally. Any suggestions?
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sm906

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 02:39:00 am »

Frans,

learning from books, especially when it comes to photography, is not always the (only) right thing to do. Have you already thought of making a workshop dealing with HDR, which gives more insight of what HDR is and can do, both theoretically and practically?

Kind regards

Thomas
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 04:48:32 am »

I'd like to get some recommendations for books on HDR for beginners. I have zero experience in this area, but would like to understand how HDR can improve images beyond what can be done with traditional photography. No, I'm not interested in the grungy, surreal side of HDR, I hate that with a vengeance.

Hoi Frans,

Welcome to the wondrous world of HDR Imaging (HDRI).

Quote
I just spent $60 on Christian Bloch's The HDR Handbook 2.0 and I can't say that it was of much help.


That's too bad, because it is a must have read book for the theoretical background, and it also offers a good comparison of the various hardware and software solutions, that were around at the time of publishing of course.

Quote
It lacks good examples of before and after for different situations and how to achieve it, so I still don't have a good feel for what I'm after: how exactly does HDR help to do what can't be done traditionally. Any suggestions?

Maybe your disappointment has something to do with the expectations? HDR imaging is not that magic bullet that some believe, but it is an essential technique to capture the wide dynamic range in some scenes, and allow post-processing (tonemapping) without creating noise issues or featureless highlights and shadows.

The HDR part of HDRI is nothing more than capturing the wide dynamic range of the scene with a device that cannot capture that range in one exposure. Even if it can, or almost can, the captured shadow areas will have received relatively little information in the form of photons. That will mean that the shadows will be relatively noisy, which only becomes more noticeable when you start post-processing them to e.g. make the shadow details a bit more visible.

The tonemapping part of HDRI is nothing more than post-processing the captured image data, much like with normal images. However, the shadow details will have much lower noise, and the highlights may hold much more detail than in a regular image. If one were to squeeze the full dynamic range into the limited output range, it would look very low contrast and lifeless. Afterall, what was blindingly bright or deep black in the original scene, will now be reduced to e.g. a contrast ratio of 100:1 on paper output. It will take a lot of contrast manipulation to fool our eyes into believing that we are looking at a high contrast scene, and because we now have better (low noise) source data, we can indeed push the global and local brightnesses around much more to create that natural looking impression of the original scene.

Maybe that is also why it's difficult to demonstrate before and after effects in natural looking HDRI. The before situation only exists at the time of shooting, and only you know that. The scene lighting may have been one of the reasons why the image was shot in the first place. After that, you are left with an abstraction of that initial impression. It now depends on which aspect you want to stress or suppress because it might distract in the composition.

Currently I'm still most pleased with the tonemapping of SNS-HDR, which allows to create very natural looking renderings of difficult scenes. It responds real-time as the sliders/controls are moved, so one can focus on the image preview while changing the settings and immediately see when to stop or when to go a bit further (assuming one has a goal in mind). It's very much a creative process, almost like painting with light, but with a huge amount of control.

Having technically better (low noise) image data also allows better use of other useful post-processing options, such as Topaz Labs Clarity, which already performs miracles on LDR images but now has much more low-noise information to work with.

So, I suggest you make the clear distinction between the capture part of HDRI, and the post-processing part of HDRI. Both are needed for a successful result, and both have their issues to overcome. There are tools to assist in that process, but it also requires a clear goal towards which to work. It also still requires good composition and an interesting subject to make beautiful images, but the scene dynamic range should be less of an obstacle to pull it off in the end. As always, there will be a learning curve, so practice will help.

Cheers,
Bart
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 12:21:10 pm »

Thanks for your replies, sm and Bart, and I agree with everything you both said. However, before embarking on what looks like an intriguing but very involved journey, I'd like to see some real-world examples of those difficult situations and how HDR comes into play. And I'm not talking about shooting indoors and needing to represent the outside scene through windows and open doors, I get that and I know how to address such situations with two exposures. I'm trying to understand how HDR works in more subtle situations. I agree that Bloch's book is chockfull of information, but I didn't find one example of what I'm looking for. Again, I'm not at all interested in the grunge look or worse of HDR.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 12:28:14 pm »

... I'm trying to understand how HDR works in more subtle situations...

That sounds like a contradiction in terms. If by "subtle" you mean LDR (Low Dynamic Range), than HDR is superfluous. Perhaps a bit more info (or a visual example) as to what you consider "subtle" would help?

Frans Waterlander

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 12:32:44 pm »

Slobodan, that's a catch 22 situation. How can I give a before and after example if I haven't, really, a good clue or the shots and HDR program to show how HDR can work in what I vague call subtle situations?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 12:35:15 pm »

So, in Donald Rumsfeld's words, we are in the "unknown unknowns" territory?  ;)

But seriously, if I understand you correctly, in your subtle situations no HDR method or program would be needed, simple Highlight/Shadows controls of most modern RAW converters or Photoshop would suffice.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 12:38:22 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 12:41:42 pm »

Slobodan, I'm not saying that at all. I'm looking for ways to learn: books, websites, whatever.
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digitaldog

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 01:02:51 pm »

That's too bad, because it is a must have read book for the theoretical background, and it also offers a good comparison of the various hardware and software solutions, that were around at the time of publishing of course.
+1, I was going to recommend it until I read Frans comments. I don't have 2.0 but the original, I don't recall it being that expensive and there's a very good web page too.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 01:16:43 pm »

Slobodan, that's a catch 22 situation. How can I give a before and after example if I haven't, really, a good clue or the shots and HDR program to show how HDR can work in what I vague call subtle situations?

Hi Frans,

The problem is that a well executed HDR tonemapping looks, underwhelmingly, natural.
That's why most demonstration shots are often from very challenging scenes, where
tonemapping can easily fail.

Attached an example, which was harder than it looks. First the minimum and maximum exposure of a 7 exposure bracketed series, then the tonemapped result (which looks much nicer full size).

Cheers,
Bart
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nma

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 01:20:12 pm »

Hello Frans,

As others have said already, the book by Bloch is a classic. I suggest you study the chapters on work flow and image capture. Try to understand the common core of the process. Otherwise, using any of the programs is bewildering, meaning that they all have a plethora of controls.

For examples of landscape photography look at the websites of Scott Stoness (http://stoness.smugmug.com/) and Dan Jurak (http://danjurak.wordpress.com/), Both offer tutorials on how they do their style of photography.  Niether Stoness nor Jurak is attempting documentary photography. Their styles are evocative. Though I give these as examples, they are but two possible styles within the realm of "believable" images. You may like them or not. If not, keep looking. HDR is just an extension of ordinary photography. It supports an infinite number of approaches.
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kirkt

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 02:16:46 pm »

http://www.hdrlabs.com/tutorials/index.html

here is a condensed version of the essence of Bloch's book, from his website.

kirk
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ripgriffith

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 03:36:30 pm »

Hoi Frans,

Welcome to the wondrous world of HDR Imaging (HDRI)...
Cheers,
Bart
Bart, brilliantly stated; very cogent!
+1 (at least)
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 08:05:42 pm »

Thanks for all your inputs. I'm now reading and learning.
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PeterAit

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 08:09:25 am »

Y'know what I suggest - forget the books (that someone could write a $60 book on this topic is a monument to padding the word count. Forget the theory, all you need to know is that HDR is a way to display in a single final image a dynamic range wider than can be captured in a single exposure. Then go and spend a few $$ on a good HDR program such as HDR Expose 3 (what I use, there are others) and go out and practice! You may not even need a tripod, just set your camera on rapid-fire and auto-bracket if it has these features. The software will take care of any minor shifts due to hand-holding. This was the approach I took and I have gotten some really great HDR results. It is not rocket science!
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Damon Lynch

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Re: HDR for beginners
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2014, 04:31:03 pm »

Frans I'm not sure if the image I worked on earlier today matches your criteria, but in any case I think it further illustrates Bart's astute observations. And besides, unlike Bart, I'm more like yourself--someone who is still very much learning the craft of post-processing.

Regarding the image itself, it's not a very attractive image, in my opinion, but it's a nevertheless a shot of a certain place in time that is meaningful to a community, and thus worth keeping.  If there was not an easy way for me to blend multiple exposures like with SND-HDR, I wouldn't have made the effort.

The image is of Sulayman mosque in Osh, Kyrgyzstan. It is Kyrgyzstan's largest mosque and was still being constructed when I took the photo in 2012. Unfortunately when I showed up, the sun was going down behind it, making for a pretty awful single exposure (first image). Four exposures ran through SNS-HDR produced the 2nd image, which as Bart observed above, is badly lacking in contrast. The final image is my attempt to bring Topaz Clarity and Nik Pro Contrast to bear. Did I apply too much Topaz Clarity on the mosque? Maybe.

As an aside, for the final image I grabbed much the sky from a single exposure, because I wasn't happy with SNS-HDR's rendition. I also had to lighten the minaret because of the extreme shift I used on the tilt-shift lens.

I hope that helps.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 04:58:40 pm by Damon Lynch »
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