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Author Topic: cold laminator  (Read 4418 times)

mstevensphoto

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cold laminator
« on: June 21, 2014, 05:08:32 pm »

I've come up against this enough times that I'm wanting to buy a cold laminator, manual is probably what's in the budget. need to be able to do 36" wide pieces. does anyone have a budget friendly favorite machine to recommend?
thanks!
Mark
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felix5616

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2014, 09:13:04 am »

PM sent
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Peter McLennan

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2014, 09:36:07 am »

I'm interested in cold laminator info, too.  In particular, compared to dry mount presses.
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dgberg

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2014, 11:26:42 am »

The first question is what are you planning to use it for? More to these things then just the width.
I purchased both of my Seal laminators on Ebay.
One a hot roll and the other cold with a heat assist roll.
The heated roller is good if you want to over laminate canvas with a product like Seals Print Guard Luster.
It does a very good job especially if you want to get away from spraying.
Nip opening is very important if you have plans to run a thicker product through. Just know what you are buying.

If you are interested in a manual machine you will find quite a few from Asia on Ebay starting at under $150.
The manual 25" Drytac is around $500 so there is quite a difference in price,maybe in quality too.
Not sure what your budget is but if it is $2,000 or so you should be able to find a nice 44" electric cold roll machine on Ebay.
Lots of options.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 01:21:37 pm by Dan Berg »
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felix5616

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2014, 12:52:48 pm »

I have a Coda 54" cold roll laminator with a footswitch if anyone is interested. located in NC, near raleigh.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2014, 11:27:29 pm »

The first question is what are you planning to use it for?
Main use will be to mount up to 17X25 RC papers on foamcore or Gator.  Also to laminate on top of the already-mounted print for protection.
Quote
Nip opening is very important if you have plans to run a thicker product through.
What's "nip opening"? Dan?  I can see me mounting up to 1/4" thick. The machine linked below says up to about a third of an inch.
Quote
If you are interested in a manual machine you will find quite a few from Asia on Ebay starting at under $150.
I think manual will do me fine.  I'm not in production, this is just for my own amusement.  I see one one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/29-5-Laminating-Manual-Mount-Machine-Cold-Film-Vinyl-Laminator-New-29-L-/301060886511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4618a08fef
that looks like it would work for what I want to do.  Am I dreaming?
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dgberg

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 05:51:35 am »

Nip opening is the space between your table and roller.
If your machine has a max nip opening of .39 that means you can run 3/8" (.375) material through it.
I use a good amount of 1/2" Gator and 5/8" multiply, neither of those would work on your machine.

mstevensphoto

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 10:48:58 am »

Dan, do you ever do canvas to gator with miracle muck on your laminator? I'm thinking a laminator would be a lot more elegant solution for controlling bubbles than braying down the whole thing. esp on large works.
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dgberg

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 11:11:23 am »

Almost all Miracle Muck.
No real problems with bubbles. The canvas using MM is repositionable so if you have a bubble or two just pull the canvas off and lay it down again.
Over Mucking for me is better then starving the gator. It will dry.

I mount a little bit of canvas to Multiply and Dibond with Print Mount Ultra through the laminator.
The pieces that do not get framed are the ones that can present an issue. The canvas shrinks a little and when it starts exposing and edge of dibond it does not look so good.
Pieces that are framed to cover that edge are never a problem.

mstevensphoto

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 11:28:17 am »

any experience with this/these people?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000mm-Manual-39Inch-Cold-Laminating-Mounting-Vinyl-Film-Machine-Laminator-/261426592014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cde3d390e

I'm planning on 90% Miracle Muck + gator and 10% basic photo paper for displays at events.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 06:28:25 pm »

I'm missing practical knowledge of the relative benefits and disadvantages of mounting RC papers up to 17x25 on foam core or gator using dry mount or cold laminating.

Need help in choosing one or the other.
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matthjones

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 06:26:42 am »

I wouldn't go for that one- independent adjustment of the roller height on each side is a hassle to use. Getting the pressure the same across the roller is pretty important. Keep an eye on ebay for used machines, there's often bargains to be had.
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bill t.

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 06:06:47 pm »

I'm missing practical knowledge of the relative benefits and disadvantages of mounting RC papers up to 17x25 on foam core or gator using dry mount or cold laminating.

If you pre-press both the print and the mounting substrate to drive out moisture, I am pretty confident that dry mounting will out last laminate mounting by quite a bit.  I adhesive mounted zillions of RC prints in the 70's, not a single one of the surviving lot is still attached today, or even ten years after the initial mounting.  The worst attachments were RC->aluminum panel, ouch!  But my 55 year old drymounted-in-high-school prints are still firmly attached to their highly non-archival Crescent mounting boards.

OK, RC papers...  Not every dry mount tissue is RC friendly.  After a lot of experimentation I finally found a tissue that worked great for RC->foamcore, and it wasn't the industry standard Colormount tissue which IMHO only works with extremely fast temperature rises which precludes the use of a substantial cover sheet.  Sadly, that magical tissue is no longer available.  So you need to experiment!  Trying to peel up mounted RC prints may not sound like a lot of fun, but it can be a real eye-opener.  When I did that stuff, I found that the time/temperature/pressure requirements for a good mount were very narrow, and that it was wise to err on the generous side of the parameters.

Could go on and on.  Temperature accuracy is also extremely important.  Most old presses with mechanical thermostats swing their temps way too high and way too low.  Presses with electronic controls are much better.  At around 220F RC paper will start to blister, so whatever else be sure your press doesn't go past that in its manic-depressive temperature gyrations.  But RC papers can withstand up to 200F pretty much indefinitely.  If you're buying a used press, be aware that it probably served a stint in t-shirts-at-the-mall Hell, where it was left permanently at the highest possible temperature by insensitive, loutish, teenage hooligans.  Such presses will have several missing sections in the heating grid, and the platens will be trashed.  OTOH, my pristine and enormously heavy 550-TX press is a joy to use and nobody may touch it but me even though I haven't done that in quite a few years.

How do test platen temperature?  There are numerous non-contact infrared thermometer devices available on the net, some of them are small enough to insert under a fully opened platen.  I bought one about 2" long from Harbor Freight, alas doesn't seem to be a stock item any more.  Don't burn yourself.  You can also heat up a thick piece of mounting paper, and read it the instant it emerges from the press.  Be sure to test for evenness of heating, you may have dead sections in the heating element.  You can also test with silly little overpriced test papers from some framing suppliers, the meters are miles ahead.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 10:52:53 pm »

As usual, Bill, a complete and concise reply.  :)  Thanks.

I was considering buying a used press, but now you give me pause.  I have a non-contact thermometer already (pizza oven construction) but even if I discovered cold spots there's probably little I could do to repair it. Most of the used presses I see on eBay have analog temperature gauges, which leads me to believe they probably have mechanical thermostats.

I'm disappointed that cold laminators won't provide a long-term solution.  I, too have drymounted prints from the 70s that have survived intact.  Not RC paper, though.

More food for thought.   Thanks again.
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alifatemi

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 05:41:28 am »

for mounting/cold laminate, I suggest SEAL brand:

http://www.neschen.de/graphics-en/laminating-machines/product/326-seal-62-base

I do all my mounting using excellent archival/museum quality mounting film Neschen Gudy 831:

http://www.neschen.de/graphics-en/protection-and-mounting-films/category/8-mounting-films---gudy

 I do the mounting manually even for large format with 44" wide paper. the thing is for stopping bobbles, after mounting your photo on foam board, you have to leave it horizontally on the table, picture side upwards, for around 12 hours; gravity draws down the paper toward the film and gradually the flexible and wet adhesive material penetrates in  paper microscopic fibers making a very stable amalgam and you will have no bobble afterwards. I have test it several times even with very thick paper, say 320 gr Hahnemuehle Pearl or Museum etching with no problem at all. Good Luck.
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marcsitkin

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 09:25:41 am »

You might want to consider a vacuum mounting with heat. Your working at a small size, and I would imagine small volume. You'll have less waste with a vacuum set up.

A good source for information is DryTac (they sell both cold mount roller and heat assist vacuum. They are well known in both the commercial laminating and mounting markets and the framing industry. A very reliable source of materials and tools as well.
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Regards,
 Marc Sitkin www.digitalmomentum

PatrickAllen

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2014, 11:31:30 am »

If you go with the cold laminator I would stay away from the Daige machines. They are one of the least expensive options but we had nothing but problems with ours. One of the problems being the 3" diameter rollers. We now have a GFP Laminator that has worked very well and has 4.5" diameter rollers. It is not the least expensive but still less then many other machines. The Seal machines have a great reputation as well.

We have not had any issues with delamination of mounted prints. With the adhesive films produced today by Seal, Mactac, GBC etc. I do not think you will ever have a problem. It takes a lot of strength and time to even try to remove a print from a mounting board.

Cheers,
Patrick
KenAllenStudios
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heheapa

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 02:47:21 am »

any experience with this/these people?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000mm-Manual-39Inch-Cold-Laminating-Mounting-Vinyl-Film-Machine-Laminator-/261426592014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cde3d390e

I'm planning on 90% Miracle Muck + gator and 10% basic photo paper for displays at events.

Yes. I am using the 25" for the poster and photo lamination works and so far working fine for that purpose.
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mstevensphoto

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2014, 11:18:26 am »

just ordered the 39" we'll see how it goes.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: cold laminator
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2014, 04:00:47 pm »

I'll look forward to your experience with this.  I have a 44" printer and I'd love to be able to mount even 39" wide.  That's as big as foamcore or gator usually gets anyway.
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