Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy  (Read 8224 times)

Isaac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3123
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2014, 05:53:36 pm »

Quote
…the biggest companies of course are Canon and Nikon, they have the legacy support, so in order to attract customers we have to give them a good reason to come to Sony. So we’re trying to make cameras which are desirable in addition to maybe a Canon or Nikon system. And in order for us to do that we have to create unique cameras that Canon and Nikon don’t offer.

We’re creating a market, which is vital in this industry, otherwise the market will be squeezed. If a customer doesn’t see anything new, they won’t be motivated to buy additional cameras. For Sony to improve our brand image within the camera industry we need to use technology. We need to change the world. 

PPE 2013: Sony Interview - 'every six months I want to do something new'
Logged

laughingbear

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2014, 03:05:10 am »


IMO Sony easily could develop and produce a MF back with their 44x33mm CMOS with different mount options (Phamiya, Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, Contax, Rollei ...) as a direct competitor to Phase and offer it for let's say EUR 6.000.
And in a second step they could produce a real 645 format version with 54x40.5mm (or even 56x41.5mm:-) sensor size and +/- 80 MP for maybe EUR 10.000.
That would dramatically shake the MF market and promote sales of all 645 format mirror reflex, mirrorless and tech cams.

Am I dreaming or could that be Sony's MF roadmap?

Hi there,

well you forgot something perhaps, and I emphasized it in your quotation above. What the Heck should be the goal? Taking a piece of the MF market? For what? The market is as narrow as can be especially compared to the one Sony started to really shake up with the entrance of the Alpha 900 a few years ago and continued to do so until today.

If they sell around 5,000 units in the MFDB markets, worldwide, that would be a lot. I doubt it!

Hence, this makes no sense to me at all.

What would make sense is to buy PhaseOne though. Pick the cherries, optics and collabs with SK, ditch the camera and software, then leave the market for Hassy and Pentax to die with. ;D
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 03:07:17 am by laughingbear »
Logged

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2014, 07:27:15 am »

I think Sony has already broken the barrier of what is "sane" as a mass-market product company. By making a 44x33mm sensor, and by making expensive fixed-lens full-frame 135 compacts like the RX1.

So I would certainly not be surprised if Sony would make something more in the MF space. Being there could be more about prestige than making large profits.
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2014, 07:57:22 am »


What would make sense is to buy PhaseOne though. Pick the cherries, optics and collabs with SK, ditch the camera and software, then leave the market for Hassy and Pentax to die with. ;D

I think you made my day. :)

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Clyde RF

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2014, 08:35:17 am »

At the risk of chiming in where the non technologically oriented (like myself) should (like the angels) fear to tread, I will risk referring to an issue which seems to me to keep highlighting itself. While the narrowness of the medium format digital market is frequently referred to as being an ironclad reason why manufacturers like Sony will not consider producing a lower priced digital back, is it not possible that there is a self-fulfilling prophecy coming into play herein. It would seem that the main reason why this market remains so narrow is very likely to be because of it's extremely high entry expense. I suspect that there are quite a number of others (besides myself) who are aware of the superiority of a tech camera system over 24/36 with high end T/S lenses, for doing architectural or landscape, (a fast growing amateur segment). I could more easily justify (rationalize?) spending for an Arca RM3DI and great Digeron lenses which will fill the bill from now on, but not for a very expensive back (however good) which will relatively soon become outdated and plummet in value. If the hope of we deluded optimists should ever be fulfilled, and an effective but affordable back were to come forward, I would be quick to grab up an RM3DI (and the lenses) before Arca-Swiss became vastly further behind in production because of Sony's foolishly adventuresome antics.   
Logged

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4067
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2014, 09:29:52 am »


What would make sense is to buy PhaseOne though. Pick the cherries, optics and collabs with SK, ditch the camera and software, then leave the market for Hassy and Pentax to die with. ;D

1st, Silverfleet would have to want to sell them, so far there has not been much stated as to directions that Silverfleet wants to take Phase One.

2nd, Sure hope they won't get rid of the software (if you are implying Capture 1) as it's one of the best raw conversion software tools out there, and 1 no for tethering, not just Phase One backs.

Paul
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2014, 12:45:46 pm »

Hi,

Pentax would not enter MFD if they didn't expect making money.

Regarding Phase one, I would suggest that the value is the whole package as a whole. The lenses are worthless without a body. The backs can go on a technical cam. C1 is an asset of it's own.

Just to say, I met a guy who happens to know some of the engineers at Phase One in Copenhagen, and he says it is a significant operation, to that comes assets of Leaf and Mamiya.

Best regards
Erik

1st, Silverfleet would have to want to sell them, so far there has not been much stated as to directions that Silverfleet wants to take Phase One.

2nd, Sure hope they won't get rid of the software (if you are implying Capture 1) as it's one of the best raw conversion software tools out there, and 1 no for tethering, not just Phase One backs.

Paul
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2014, 03:04:10 pm »

I met a guy from Rochester who knew some people who worked at Kodak, and he told me that was a significant operation.
Memento Mori (remember thou art mortal). (wikipedia image).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#mediaviewer/File:Danse_macabre_by_Michael_Wolgemut.png




Edmund

Hi,

Pentax would not enter MFD if they didn't expect making money.

Regarding Phase one, I would suggest that the value is the whole package as a whole. The lenses are worthless without a body. The backs can go on a technical cam. C1 is an asset of it's own.

Just to say, I met a guy who happens to know some of the engineers at Phase One in Copenhagen, and he says it is a significant operation, to that comes assets of Leaf and Mamiya.

Best regards
Erik

« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 03:09:31 pm by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2014, 04:19:05 pm »

We need to think about this logically.  What would happen if Sony made a stand alone medium format back that would work on other platforms and with tech cameras? 

This forum would light the skies up with comments like "how dare those scumbags in Japan create a cheap back with no cheap camera system!"  "How dare they force our hand to buy the greatly inferior bodies and lenses from Phase and Hassy and Rollie and Arca Swiss and Alpa!"  "This is the end of it, no one should even think about buying this thing Sony created!"  "Damn them all!"

Sounds like them not making a back would be the better business system. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 04:42:43 pm »

We need to think about this logically.  What would happen if Sony made a stand alone medium format back that would work on other platforms and with tech cameras? 

Although one could expect almost anything from Sony by know, there's one thing that's just too improbable, and that is making a back without also making a camera system. If Sony would make a MF system it will likely be a mirrorless system, much like an enlarged A7r. It could be used as a digital back just as the A7r is now on view cameras, with certain limitations on focal lengths and movements.
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2014, 07:26:38 pm »

:-)


I met a guy from Rochester who knew some people who worked at Kodak, and he told me that was a significant operation.
Memento Mori (remember thou art mortal). (wikipedia image).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#mediaviewer/File:Danse_macabre_by_Michael_Wolgemut.png




Edmund

Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

AOK

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • 'Cause I know what I'm doin'
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2014, 02:58:57 pm »

Does anyone know what is the exact model of the Exmor R CMOS sensor used in the new MF Pentax 645Z?
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2014, 04:27:47 pm »

Does anyone know what is the exact model of the Exmor R CMOS sensor used in the new MF Pentax 645Z?

What makes you think there is more than one Sony MF sensor?

It was already surprising to see them invest in such a niche, are you implying they may have developped several versions? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

AOK

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • 'Cause I know what I'm doin'
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2014, 06:56:20 pm »

Good point, but I doubt it.

IMO there is one single MF SONY CMOS chip and that's all. The higher ISO by PENTAX is additionally boosted, in comparison to the  Hassy and PS, by its image processor and board design. You know: better colling location, better logic and many others I guess.

I believe that the strength of Hassy and PS is in their broader spectrum of better glass. I am not sure. I guess others have to say about that.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2014, 07:04:48 pm »

Good point, but I doubt it.

IMO there is one single MF SONY CMOS chip and that's all.

That's my view as well.

Cheers,
Bernard

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2014, 10:47:38 pm »

To me, Sony will repeat the FF strategy with the 44X33 sensors. First a fixed lens body and a year later an ILCE. Fixed lens is a safe comfortable strategy and ILCE gives them the empowerment to do more things, learn and later cope a significant portion of the market. Besides the A7 line has proved that it can be also a digital back. A MF sensor ILCE will sure sprout third party companys much more than the A7. Or....
Sony will come with a fixed WATE-like super duper Zeiss lens and be done with it. End of story.
Eduardo
Logged

Transposure

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 76
    • Transposure Creative
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 10:52:37 pm »

Does anyone think they will develop a larger CMOS sensor, equal to the larger PO offerings (54mm x 40mm)?

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 08:17:05 pm »

Does anyone think they will develop a larger CMOS sensor, equal to the larger PO offerings (54mm x 40mm)?

I believe it's a certainty.
Phase and Hassy will pay for the large chips, just to be able to maintain differentiation with Pentax.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Jim Kasson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2370
    • The Last Word
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 08:23:25 pm »

Phase and Hassy will pay for the large chips, just to be able to maintain differentiation with Pentax.

Edmund, what keeps Pentax from using such a chip? Their body started out as a 645 film camera, n'est pas?

Jim

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2014, 09:20:37 pm »

Edmund, what keeps Pentax from using such a chip? Their body started out as a 645 film camera, n'est pas?

Jim

Their non-modular design slows down their product release schedule, and complicates inventory control, je crois.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up