Luminance (brightness) issue when sending files

[FrankG]

I'm still grappling with the problem of calibrating in such a way that there is some kind of 'standard' for 'talking to others' and us all seeing the same image. This continues to baffle me.

I bought a new monitor and calibrated it WP 6500, gamma 2.2, and a Luminance of 110 cd/m2 (which seems to be close for wyswyg prinnting on my epson 3880 using paper profiles. Although I may tweak the luminance down a bit.

Here's the problem. I just did a series of 22 portraits and after photoshopping them to look as I wanted, on my new monitor (they're in black & white), I shipped them off to the graphic designer who is designing a composite and having the piece printed. He said they were a bit dark (light areas) and that he needed to tweak them a little in Levels.

Obviously i don't know how he has calibrated his monitor, I think he is on a MacBook Pro, but surely there must be a way to 'standardize'.
Wyswyg from my monitor to my printer is important but not nearly as crucial as me being able to send out files to others across the universe and needing some kind of method to know that they are going to get and see what I intend them to see.

Is there no way to do this....what am I missing ?

[digitaldog]

I'm still grappling with the problem of calibrating in such a way that there is some kind of 'standard' for 'talking to others' and us all seeing the same image. This continues to baffle me.

There is no standard. There are all kinds of displays out there with differing technologies. There are differing calibration solutions. You want a group to see the same numbers identically? Get them all a reference display system (NEC PA series), all running SpectraView set to the same calibration targets. Measure using the same instrument. They should see the same numbers identically if you also control the viewing environment. Short of that, all bets are off.

If the designer thinks his display system is so great, let him tweak the files and let's see what comes out from the output.

[Some Guy]

A luminance of 110 does seem rather high which would result in dark prints.   When I run the i1 PhotoPro 2, it has me down to a level of 85 cd/m2 in my environment.  I set my calibration to D55 too for prints.

SG

[digitaldog]

A luminance of 110 does seem rather high which would result in dark prints. 

Depends on the print viewing conditions! On this end, 110cd/m2 would produce prints that look way too dim. 150cd/m2 is just right. But then that's how I've adjusted my viewing conditions. Difficult for many LCD's to hit 110 cd/m2 natively.

[D Fosse]

He said they were a bit dark (light areas) and that he needed to tweak them a little in Levels.

Are you using the now default dark interface in Photoshop? If so, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem right there, the dark surrounding can really play tricks on the eyes (same for Lightroom BTW).

Try the light interface and notice the difference in perceived brightness (ctrl + shift + F1/F2 cycles on the fly). For print, on presumably white paper, that gives a much more realistic impression. The dark interface is really for web and video.

[Jim Kasson]

Are you using the now default dark interface in Photoshop? If so, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem right there, the dark surrounding can really play tricks on the eyes (same for Lightroom BTW).

Try the light interface and notice the difference in perceived brightness (ctrl + shift + F1/F2 cycles on the fly). For print, on presumably white paper, that gives a much more realistic impression. The dark interface is really for web and video.

+1 for this. I don't know why surround doesn't get equal billing with brightness when discussing soft proofing. It's at least as important.

Jim

[digitaldog]

Actually what you want is a dark UI but with a white/very light border, say an inch or so, around the entire image.

[mouse]

Actually what you want is a dark UI but with a white/very light border, say an inch or so, around the entire image.

That's an idea which has percolated in my head for some time. It mimics the way I display my prints; with an off-white mat.   Is there some way to set up PS to produce this display option?  I am aware of the "enlarge canvas" option, but that seems rather awkward.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Is there some way to set up PS to produce this display option?...

Just right-click anywhere outside the image.

[Jim Kasson]

 Is there some way to set up PS to produce this display option? 

If you want it sticky, you can change it in Edit>Preferences>Interface



Most of the time you want a light surround, but sometimes you want to see the shadows better. If you pick one of the screen mode surrounds as black, like I did in the example, you can easily cycle through them.

Jim

[Tim Lookingbill]

...He said they were a bit dark (light areas) and that he needed to tweak them a little in Levels.

Obviously i don't know how he has calibrated his monitor, I think he is on a MacBook Pro, but surely there must be a way to 'standardize'.
Wyswyg from my monitor to my printer is important but not nearly as crucial as me being able to send out files to others across the universe and needing some kind of method to know that they are going to get and see what I intend them to see.

Is there no way to do this....what am I missing ?

Download the untagged highlite stepwedge below and assign your custom display profile and have your client do the same on his system. You both should be able to see a distinction between at least 250RGB gray and white if not the 253RGB gray which I can see on my 27" LED display calibrated/profiled to 100 cd/m2.

There's also the question regarding tastes in editing that might be a possible cause. I tend to make my images look too dark editing in two versions of ACR and LR 4.4 when attempting to brighten and retain clarity by tone mapping highlight detail working from rather dull and murky Raw original. The sample below shows the many tone mapped iterations influenced by behavior of the editing tools and how my eyes adapted. It also illustrates the many options available editing Raw images. Just something to consider.

[mouse]

Thank you SB and JK

[FrankG]

Thanks Tim. I see all of them on my monitor, 253 included.
So what does this tell us....I can just barely see the 253 and on another monitor it could be a tad darker or brighter...?
Does it make any difference if I Assign my monitor profile or Convert to...(just curious about the difference if any but I don't want to digress)

[Tim Lookingbill]

Thanks Tim. I see all of them on my monitor, 253 included.
So what does this tell us....I can just barely see the 253 and on another monitor it could be a tad darker or brighter...?
Does it make any difference if I Assign my monitor profile or Convert to...(just curious about the difference if any but I don't want to digress)

It tells us that it just may boil down to a matter of taste as to why your client had to brighten the highlights of your image given you rule out your client sees the same distinction of steps in that highlight gray ramp as you do. That's your standard you were asking for. You can assign any 2.2 gamma encoded profile to that grayramp. I did without getting any change to the preview.

There's a reason editing apps include a highlight recovery adjust but some apply a flat appearance to the overall densities represented in the grayramp even though highlight detail has been brought out (distinction of steps).

Compare the various highlight recovery treatments in the second sample I posted of the courthouse. The original final Raw viewed at 100% of the lower left version appears brighter (as it is in the smaller posted version) and has the same amount of detail distinction as the upper and lower right versions which look sort of dim by comparison. The histograms representing 1.8 gamma ProPhotoRGB output encoding of all three are almost identical.

Your client may be seeing your rendering of highlights as dim/darker than they want since you mentioned it was to fit within their overall composite composition.

[FrankG]

That's your standard you were asking for

Thank you