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Author Topic: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions  (Read 7621 times)

Murray Fredericks

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ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« on: June 14, 2014, 03:15:48 am »

Hi All,

Two questions for anyone who has practical experience with the Alpa/IQ250/Canon Wide Lenses

1. Will the Canon 24mm f/1.4L II or 14mm f/2.8L II image circles cover the sensor? If they do, what are the edges like?

2. Using the 24mmTSE, how does it perform off axis...any issues with the micro-lenses?

I am considering adding an FPS to the Alpa kit if these wider & faster canon lenses can be used.

Cheers

Murray
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chrismuc

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2014, 04:12:09 am »

The Canon 24f3.5 L II TSE covers the image circle of 54x40.5 mm sensors, therefore easily covers the 44x33 mm sensor of the IQ250 back and allows some shift movement.
From this IQ180 + FPS test pic with full shift you can evaluate the corner sharpness.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18437364/Contax645%2BiQ180/Canon-24TSE%2B12mm-upperhalf.jpg
FYI similar test pic for Canon 17f4 L TSE.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18437364/Contax645%2BiQ180/Canon-17TSE%2B12mm-upperhalf.jpg
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2014, 04:42:09 am »

Thanks for posting those examples

So on an IQ180 (larger sensor than the 250) the fall off is pretty severe to my eye with softness and colour shifting happening at 6mm onwards on both lenses. Maybe that's 10mm shift or a bit before issues start appearing in the corners on the 250...

Anyone tried the faster wider 24mm f/1.4 or 14mm 2.8?

Murray
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gerald.d

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2014, 04:49:50 am »

Thanks for posting those examples

So on an IQ180 (larger sensor than the 250) the fall off is pretty severe to my eye with softness and colour shifting happening at 6mm onwards on both lenses. Maybe that's 10mm shift or a bit before issues start appearing in the corners on the 250...

Anyone tried the faster wider 24mm f/1.4 or 14mm 2.8?

Murray
IIRC, I did try the 24, but it had a hard vignette. I can check when I'm back at work tomorrow.

The 14mm will vignette due to the lens shade.
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2014, 05:01:29 am »

Thanks Gerald,

It would be greatly appreciated if you could check that 24mm and maybe even post an image?

Are there any other potential fast(er) wides for this setup - Zeiss perhaps, that would work?

I am after a lens on this setup that is min 24mm and at least f/2.8...

In my experience there is a huge difference between f/3.5 and f/2.8 when working in very low light...Just exposing each from forever is not an option unfortunately

Thanks

Murray
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gerald.d

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2014, 05:10:50 am »

Thanks Gerald,

It would be greatly appreciated if you could check that 24mm and maybe even post an image?

Are there any other potential fast(er) wides for this setup - Zeiss perhaps, that would work?

I am after a lens on this setup that is min 24mm and at least f/2.8...

In my experience there is a huge difference between f/3.5 and f/2.8 when working in very low light...Just exposing each from forever is not an option unfortunately

Thanks

Murray

The only wide Canon's I'm aware of that will cover the sensor are the 17 and 24 TS-E's. I tried the Zeiss 15mm a while back, but same problem as the Canon 14 - the lens shade hard vignettes. I don't have any Zeiss's wider than the 28, so can't help out there I'm afraid.

The Canon 35/1.4 just about covers the sensor, and I reckon it would make for a great combination for astro work, though I realise that you're looking for something wider.

I'll update on the Canon 24 within the next couple of days.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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AreBee

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2014, 07:03:16 am »

Gerald,

Quote
I tried the Zeiss 15mm a while back, but same problem as the Canon 14 - the lens shade hard vignettes.

Just in case you were unaware, the hood can be removed from the Zeiss 15mm. Instructions are provided here.

Regards,
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chrismuc

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2014, 09:13:28 pm »

FPS + IQ180 + Sigma 35f1.4 Art @ f11, cropped to 44x33mm sensor size
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18437364/Contax645%2BiQ180/IQ180%2BSigma35f1.4_f11-44x33mm.jpg

FPS + IQ180 + Sigma 50f1.4 Art @ f11, cropped to 44x33mm sensor size
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18437364/Contax645%2BiQ180/IQ180%2BSigma50f1.4_f11-44x33mm.jpg

Both lenses cover the 44x33mm sensor with soft corners.
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2014, 11:53:21 pm »

The Zeiss 15mm would be an excellent option...

Has anyone removed the hood and tried this setup? Does it cover the IQ250 sensor fully?
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 03:32:30 am »

Or perhaps the Nikon 24mm 1.4...does anyone know if that covers the IQ250 sensor? Any tests?

Cheers

Murray
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gerald.d

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 04:16:19 am »

Here's the Canon 24mm f/1.4. As you can see, it's a no-go.

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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 04:38:49 am »

Hey Thanks Gerald,

Not sure if that's a complete no-go for my purposes given the speed of the lens and the possibility of stitching the good bits...

Any chance you could post the raw or full res jpeg? Also, what happens when you make an LCC, it may make a bit more of the image useable?

=Murray


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gerald.d

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 06:25:14 am »

I don't have my LCC handy at the moment - it is total vignetting in the corners though.

I'll PM you a link for the RAW.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 06:40:03 am »

Thanks again, Gerald...

I can see the sharpness also drop off well before the light does. Given the low light capabilities of this lens, however, I'll give it a try on location.

Also, nice pillows!

Cheers

Murray

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wallpaperviking

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 03:03:39 am »

Hi Murray,
               I recently saw this post...

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/50536-new-hcam-ts-master-14-24mm.html

where Stefan Steib from Hartblei is talking about the image circle of the Nikon 14-24mm..  The rise/fall and shift movements are in relation to use on the Sony A7R but he does go on to say that even at 14mm it will cover the full area of the IQ250..



" the new system from the right side.

5mm shift bidirectional in 14mm focal length
10mm shift bidirectional in 18mm focal length
7mm shift bidirectional in 24mm focal length

Quality of the Nikon 14-24mm is well known to be on top of superwideangles, to be compared with the best Zeiss Primes like the 15mm Distagon but with less distortions.

Even shifted and stitched at 14mm you will get about 34x46mm or if used on an HCam-B1 (or an FPS) with an IQ250 a full shot with 14mm focal length.

And yes we are planning to sell the parts separately if needed.
Customer 14-24mm Lenses also to be serviced and modded.
Prices still to be determined  "


This involves sawing off the lens hood as well to get around the vignetting issue..

As an owner of the Sony A7R, I am patiently waiting for this adapter to be released so that I can try to achieve the "poor mans MFDB" through doing rear stitches :)

Great work by the way, I recently saw your exhibit in Melbourne, really great..

Cheers

Stefan
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wallpaperviking

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 03:15:46 am »

Hi chrismuc,
                 Thanks so much for posting those Sigma samples, that is awesome to see!  I have been thinking whether these might be suitable for a temporary solution for use on my A7R and those samples are indeed very encouraging :)  I am planning on buying these lenses anyway, so is great to know that they can have a little wiggle..

Any idea how much useable front shift I would be able to get if using the smaller 35mm full frame?  I also generally crop to a 5:4 ratio as well..

Ok, thanks so much once again, is very encouraging :)

Cheers

Stefan

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MNG

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2014, 07:08:04 pm »

Hi, has anyone tested an IQ250 on an Alpa FPS and how much rise/fall can this back handle? before a LCC can not correct?
Michael
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tochnia

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 07:39:50 am »

Sfefan have posted following picture:

http://www.hcam.de/downloads/HCam-P45Plus-Nik14-24GED-F11.jpg

with following setup: Nikon 14-24/2.8 /"unshaved"/ at 14mm  HCam-B1 and a Phase One P45+ 49.1 x 36.8mm Chip size on 39 Mpix:

Pretty good sharpness even in corners, so might be really fine with hood shaved  ::)

gerald.d

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2015, 08:15:17 am »

Sfefan have posted following picture:

http://www.hcam.de/downloads/HCam-P45Plus-Nik14-24GED-F11.jpg

with following setup: Nikon 14-24/2.8 /"unshaved"/ at 14mm  HCam-B1 and a Phase One P45+ 49.1 x 36.8mm Chip size on 39 Mpix:

Pretty good sharpness even in corners, so might be really fine with hood shaved  ::)

If the image circle of that lens at 14mm were large enough to cover the P45+ sensor, then it would give an field of view equivalent to a rectilinear 9.9mm lens on 35mm.

Can't see that happening.

I'll hopefully be shaving one next week regardless, so will test on 250, 180 & P45+ Achromatic, but don't hold your breath.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
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Murray Fredericks

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Re: ALPA FPS / IQ250 / Canon Wides Questions
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2015, 08:19:27 pm »

Nikon 14-24mm performs well on the FPS and IQ250. I have tested without the hood shaved and I would expect it to cover, if not 100% then 95%...

Also this was the best performing wide angle out of a bunch of fast (f2.8 or faster) Canon, Nikon and Zeiss that I tested. Least distortion, least vignette, least colour shift, flare and sharpness imperfections towards the edge.

The vignette of the 14-24mm is around a stop as compared with the Zeiss15mm and some other wides that are 2.5 stops. This is vitally important shooting in low light as the LCC adjustment will rip the edges apart as it brightens them.

My tests were field tests at night, as opposed to 'lab' tests. My goal was to quickly determine the best combination on the FPS for the subject and then carry on with the work...
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