E. J. Peiker on Phase One vs. Nikon D800

[Atina]

I have no idea whether this was posted before, but since I like E. J. Peiker's work, I thought some of you might be interested in hearing his thoughts about these camera systems.

Apparently, someone told him that a new Phase One body is coming. The article was published in January 2014.

http://www.naturescapes.net/articles/opinions/the-case-for-and-against-medium-format/

[Lorenzo Pierucci]

Nice read.

This seems to be the most posted about topic. I just say that i see differences from a 10 years old Valeo 22 and a D800 both in studio ( Mamiya AFD + 80 mm )
and in location ( rodenstock 55 mm plus 4x5 camera ).

Im pretty sure that a IQ is a different game, championship and even sport. Then of course: i use the D800 80% of the time. But is not my "photographic tool". To me digital sensor is a digital film, while the D800 is a evolved consumed camera.

[Paul2660]

Well written, however surprising to the 14bit vs 16bit issue come up as most now accept that the last 2 bits are noise and not used, included most dealers.  Article also seems to imply the IQ250 is listed as a 16 bit but Phase clearly states it as 14 bit.

Also interesting to read his feelings about the DF+ and lenses, and the number of issues that came up.  Hopefully something is coming to resolve that once and for all.

Paul

[eronald]

Phase has spent the last ten years selling people excellent backs with the repeated promise that a better body will be supplied tomorrow.

Synn wrote that as an ex-Phase user I am an idiot with no knowledge of a modern Phase system; this guy seems to know his way around a camera, and has the images to show for it,  and he does not seem very impressed by the current SLR.

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

I don't know his work well, but the images he posted in this article are so perfectly suited for stitching that I don't see any point in comparing single frame resolution if the goal is to achieve high image quality.

Why he would select a, very good, zoom lens designed for photo journalism to perform a landscape shooting comparison eludes me too.

Finally, I am not sure how he managed to get a 100% crop that un-sharp with a D800E, he must have attempted some sort of up-resing to equal resolution. With suitable sharpening, D800 images shot with the Otus at f2.8-f8 and focused with live view are typically sharper viewed at 100% than his Phaseone 100% crop.

Cheers,
Bernard

[torger]

You get more single shot resolution, that's what it's about. With a tech cam you get additional features which I personally think is more important than resolution, but for an SLR user in the landscape genre resolution is basically it.

[EricWHiss]

It's a pretty fair article, and the photo work is nice.   I personally would not want to stitch during sunset as the light changes so fast, but that's just me. Anyhow the stitching is not an argument that can be used to say one is better than another since a photographer could stitch with either camera.   

Resolution is tricky to compare.  When I tested the d800e vs 80mp back, I noted very good luminosity detail on the d800e but noticeably less color detail. This shows up in landscapes where there is fine detail like leaves in a tree, grasses, etc.   There can be a lot of color variation - each blade of grass can be different hue because of the angle to the light, each leaf can be different - some more yellow some more green etc and the MFDB catches a lot of that which the DSLR doesn't.  In my opinion this extra color tonality translates to a more real looking image. 

The lenses are important as Bernard points out, but I think the differences in color detail are not mitigated by a good lens as its more of design choice on the CFA.  Maybe one day 35mm sensors will be offered with options in addition to having or not having an AA filter such as a CFA tuned for base ISO or for high ISO…  Or maybe the sensor design will move away from a Bayer array with interpolated color? 

[Doug Peterson]

I don't know his work well, but the images he posted in this article are so perfectly suited for stitching that I don't see any point in comparing single frame resolution if the goal is to achieve high image quality.

Why he would select a, very good, zoom lens designed for photo journalism to perform a landscape shooting comparison eludes me too.

Finally, I am not sure how he managed to get a 100% crop that un-sharp with a D800E, he must have attempted some sort of up-resing to equal resolution. With suitable sharpening, D800 images shot with the Otus at f2.8-f8 and focused with live view are typically sharper viewed at 100% than his Phaseone 100% crop.

Cheers,
Bernard

Likewise if he had used one of the better Schneider lenses at a closer-to-ideal fstop he could have gotten better detail there. The 75-150 is not the strongest lens in the lineup, especially at that aperture.

Presumably he was testing based on HIS needs/compromises not your or mine. He mentioned pack weight so maybe to him one zoom is an ok compromise compared to taking two or three primes based on the savings in pack weight. It's not the compromise I would personally make (if rather have one sharp prime than a pretty-good zoom) but to each his own; especially given that he is creating great work his way.

I'd love to see his review of a tech can kit since it's often lighter and the lens quality is unmatched.

[BernardLanguillier]

Likewise if he had used one of the better Schneider lenses at a closer-to-ideal fstop he could have gotten better detail there. The 75-150 is not the strongest lens in the lineup, especially at that aperture.

Presumably he was testing based on HIS needs/compromises not your or mine. He mentioned pack weight so maybe to him one zoom is an ok compromise compared to taking two or three primes based on the savings in pack weight. It's not the compromise I would personally make (if rather have one sharp prime than a pretty-good zoom) but to each his own; especially given that he is creating great work his way.

I'd love to see his review of a tech can kit since it's often lighter and the lens quality is unmatched.

Absolutely, using the 75-150 is a surprising choice too and the 100% crop from the back is clearly far from the best you can extract from an AA filter sensor when things go perfectly well.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paul2660]

Back in day I carried a DF and Mamiya Glass, I found the Mamiya (not the newer LS version) to be one of the sharpest lenses I had.  I still have mine for that reason.  The AF was accurate, and fast.  Lens is heavy and bulky, but mine was excellent. 

More than likely the reason the D800 is appearing soft, is that the image was uprez'd to get to the same size as the MF image.  You can write an entire volume on which software tools to use, how to sharpen it etc. 

I find that Eric's comments on the D800 and color sharpness are right on, as I see this often in my work.  There are ways to help it like Focus Magic etc.  so the end result can look very good and close. 

I also agree with Doug, I would have loved to see him using a Tech camera, say the SK 120 (new version) on the MF back. 

Something each person needs to try themselves and weigh the cost vs result equation.

Paul

[E.J. Peiker]

Thanks for posting this here and the commentary.  The only reason I did the comparison with the zoom is because I was using a zoom on the Nikon as I had it with me primarily as a backup.  Virtually all of the pictures I took on that trip were actually done with the Schneider primes.