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Author Topic: Still lost in color space ...  (Read 2646 times)

KirbyKrieger

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Still lost in color space ...
« on: May 28, 2014, 10:21:54 pm »

I am unable to satisfactorily calibrate an NEC PA271W (the original one) running on OS 10.9.3 using Spectraview (1.1.17) and a ColorMunki.

The monitor is set up as an external monitor to my 15" rMBP (late 2013 Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013).

With the target "Color Gamut" set to "Native FULL" I get the wretched "lobstering" or "sunburn effect".  This is even after doing a deep factory reset (3x).  The lobstering is present in all applications, all windows, and shows on the desktop icons.  Setting JPGs to other color spaces profiles (ProPhoto RGB,
Adobe RGB {1998}) makes no difference.  There is no lobstering on the laptop screen.  The lobstering remains even in clamshell mode (laptop closed, external monitor as primary and only screen).

NEC technicians have had me use a target with "Color Gamut" set to "sRGB".  This eliminates the lobstering.

Q1:  I'd like to use the full gamut of the display.  Why won't it work?  NEC technicians have not been able to say, but suggest that the problem is with Apple's OS.  Apple — when I checked a couple of years ago — insisted the problem was with NEC's hardware.

Is anyone able to use any wide gamut target with OS X?  with OS 10.9.3?  with an MBP?

When calibrated to the sRGB gamut, the hues are not correct: all the grays are greenish.  I have tried customizing the WB visually, but I have not been able to get it good enough:  either the grays are gray, or the hues are true, but not both.  When the grays are gray, the color cast is overly red.  When the hues are true, the grays are distinctly green.  I have confirmed this — at least with grays and blues — by measuring the output color on the 271 and on my other monitors with the SpectraView utility.

Q2:  What do I have to do to get calibrated, correct color from my PA271W (even when limited to sRGB)?

What I would really like (brought up in my thread from last week) is to have a fully-calibrated three-screen set-up, with my rMBP LCD, my NEC2490WUXi2, and my NEC PA271W.  When the NECs are calibrated (with the 271 to sRGB and the 2490 to "native", which NEC technicians tell me is sRGB) with SpectraView, and the laptop with the ColorMunki software, the laptop shows the most correct color.  The 2490 is slightly too red, and the 271 is, using "slightly" as a unit, 4x that too green.

The above holds for solid colors, grayscale photographs, and various screen-testing images available on the Web.

Neither I nor the NEC technicians think the following is relevant, but since I read in Jeff's book (Schewe, The Digital Print, p.69) that he calibrates his monitors to 150 Cd/m^2, I want to mention that I calibrate everything to 85 Cd/m^2.  (I can't see much of anything even at 140, which is the default for SpectraView II.)

I need to make prints, and I need to be sure that the color I see on-screen is reproducible elsewhere and that it matches what comes from the printers I use (Epson 3880, Epson 9900).  I'm befuddled and frustrated.  I _don't_ dismiss user error, though I have been through the set-up a few times with different technicians.

Q3: I am open to suggestions for new hardware and software.  What is the least amount I have to spend to have a reliable, easy-to-maintain, color-calibrated workflow across at least two monitors?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:30:58 pm by KirbyKrieger »
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Schewe

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 11:38:38 pm »

How old is the ColorMunki?
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MarkM

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 12:27:32 am »

I'm running a PA241w with OS 10.9.3 with no issues at all. Not the same monitor, but it should be quite similar. Have you tried downloading and using Multiprofiler?  (http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/multi-profiler/downloads). It's defaults should at least give sensible results that help you eliminate some of the variables.
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D Fosse

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 06:37:29 am »

In cases like this that I've run into before, the problem has always turned out to be that the OS isn't loading the correct display profile for the correct display. I'd start there.
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KirbyKrieger

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 08:54:47 am »

How old is the ColorMunki?

 4+ years (purchased January 2010).  It's the original ColorMunki Photo.

Is there any way for me to test it?

It was an excellent value, but I am ready to replace it.  I'm a solo fine art photographer who prints, so while I need accuracy and reliability, it's not a tool I am going to use often.

Do you recommend replacement?  With?  

IME, printer/paper profiles supplied by the paper mfr.'s were better than I could make with the ColorMunki.  Can I do well with just the X-Rite i1Display Pro (which I think is just the photospectrometer for calibrating displays).  The much more expensive (4x the cost) i1Basic Pro 2 includes hardware and software for creating printer/paper profiles.

Thanks.

KirbyKrieger

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 09:13:37 am »

I'm running a PA241w with OS 10.9.3 with no issues at all. Not the same monitor, but it should be quite similar. Have you tried downloading and using Multiprofiler?  (http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/multi-profiler/downloads). It's defaults should at least give sensible results that help you eliminate some of the variables.

Mark — thanks for the input.  It is, of course, good to know that the goal is reachable.

I have not used MultiProfiler.  Have you used NEC's SpectraView II software?  Do you know how they compare?  (I think MultiProfiler does not calibrate monitors, but I'm just reading about it.)

KirbyKrieger

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 09:33:05 am »

In cases like this that I've run into before, the problem has always turned out to be that the OS isn't loading the correct display profile for the correct display. I'd start there.

The question is, "How?"

This seems to be what NEC technicians think.  They bring up the issue of the "default" profile.  I can change the profile via " ▹ System Preferences ...  ▹ Displays ▹ Color", and see that the display changes.  We set the laptop LCD to the PA271W profile, with no changes in the problems on the PA271, and without the problems showing on the laptop LCD.

How can I confirm that the OS is loading the correct display profile for each display?  What are the trouble-shooting steps for finding where this might be going wrong?  (Does it make sense to create a clean 10.9.3 boot partition, boot from it, and check the displays?)

Thanks.  Sorry for the burst of questions.

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 01:02:06 pm »

The question is, "How?"

This seems to be what NEC technicians think.  They bring up the issue of the "default" profile.  I can change the profile via " ▹ System Preferences ...  ▹ Displays ▹ Color", and see that the display changes.  We set the laptop LCD to the PA271W profile, with no changes in the problems on the PA271, and without the problems showing on the laptop LCD.

How can I confirm that the OS is loading the correct display profile for each display?  What are the trouble-shooting steps for finding where this might be going wrong?  (Does it make sense to create a clean 10.9.3 boot partition, boot from it, and check the displays?)

Thanks.  Sorry for the burst of questions.
Kirby,

I have a small free program called "displayprofile" that shows just what profile is in effect for any monitor. You just run the program and a small window pops up with a list of installed profiles and with the current one highlighted. If you then drag that window to a different monitor, it instantly changes to highlight the profile for that monitor.

Here is one place you can download the program: http://www.damiensymonds.com.au/art_vista.html

I find it very useful on rare occasions when my profiles seem to be fouled up.

Eric
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KirbyKrieger

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 01:05:55 pm »

I have a small free program called "displayprofile" that shows just what profile is in effect for any monitor.

Thanks Eric — downloading now.   Spoke too soon — is it Windows-only?  I'm on a Mac ... .
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 01:11:50 pm by KirbyKrieger »
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digitaldog

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 01:40:13 pm »

Got Photoshop? Go into Color Settings. RGB working space. Top of the list, shows: Monitor RGB: XXX where XXX is the profile your system is using in color managed app's.
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MarkM

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 01:58:28 pm »

I have not used MultiProfiler.  Have you used NEC's SpectraView II software?  Do you know how they compare?  (I think MultiProfiler does not calibrate monitors, but I'm just reading about it.)

Yes, I have both SpectraView and MultiProfiler. MultiProfiler is really handy and there's no reason not to have it if you are using this monitor. It allows you to set picture modes and install factory profiles. Although I've never had it happen, it's possible that your monitor is in a picture mode that doesn't agree with the profile. If this is the case MultiProfiler should be able to get it back in sync. Also MultiProfiler works well with SpectraView profiles — you can switch between the default picture modes and the custom profile with a single click.

When debugging OS X issues it can be helpful to create a new clean user and see if things look better when logged into the that account. This will eliminate the possibility that something is messed up in your account. Of course if it's messed up on a system level this won't help.
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John V.

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Re: Still lost in color space ...
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 05:32:46 pm »

In cases like this that I've run into before, the problem has always turned out to be that the OS isn't loading the correct display profile for the correct display. I'd start there.

I had an issue with win7 not loading display profiles created by my ColorMunki which has (apparently) since been resolved after a reformat and clean install of win7 and all drivers. Prior to the reinstall the solution I found was to manually run the "Calibration Loader" program within the ColorMunki software ( C:\Program Files (x86)\X-Rite\ColorMunki Photo\Gamma\CalibrationLoader.exe) and then poof, profile loaded. Windows seems to be on top of it now, but I still run it at startup out of habit. Just to throw that out there...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 01:09:03 pm by John V. »
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