Fotodiox RZ67 to Nikon F Adapter

[Ian99]

Fotodiox have recently produced adapters to mount RB and RZ67 lenses on Canon, Nikon F, and some other bodies. This post covers my comments on the RZ-F adapter.

I have made three different versions of this adaptor in my home workshop and was eagerly waiting a nice commercial version. As the Hartblei seems to be MIA, this Fotodiox adaptor appears to be the only one available.

This is a fully manual connection between the RZ and F mounts and the lens must be used in step-down mode. The F mount looks like AIS but this is not relevant as there are no aperture or shutter connectors extending through the adaptor. This adaptor can be used on any F mount and none of the Nikon restrictions (eg cannot use non-CPU lenses) apply.

Focusing is stiff and leaks oil onto the external surface. The throw is only 28mm compared to 47mm of the RZ body, so do not expect to use this for macro work without extensions or bellows.

An RZ lens mounts well with the normal strong twist lock.  Immediately behind the locking ring is a very convenient ring to cock the shutter and thereby allow viewing through the lens. Using the T slide on the lens with the shutter cock mechanism allows you to close down the aperture on the lens to whatever you like. The camera shutter is used to control exposure and not the one in the lens. Clumsy but it works.

The adaptor fits well at the F mount end.

My criticism of the adaptor lies with its tripod mount. Firstly the silly little round plate does not fit anything I have seen any one using. The ¼ x 20 UNC thread is standard but way to small for this device and the foot is held to the mount by two very small screws – roughly M2.5x0.45.

The RZ lenses are heavy. Anyone strange enough to want to use RZ lenses is probably going to mount Pro grade cameras, which are also heavy. The tripod mount is a disaster waiting to happen. It is just too light for the task.

Luckily I have a mount ring for the Nikon 70-200 F4 to which I had added a home machined Arca-Swiss style plate 2.5” long. There is a 0.5 mm difference in their diameters which was easily solved with some tape around the adaptor barrel. Now it holds perfectly on a tripod.

Overall a good try but could be better.

[BobShaw]

hi,
Sorry to perhaps hijack the thread. I did a search but couldn't find anything on an adapter to connect an RZ67 lens to a view camera, possibly a Linhof 4x5 or a Cambo Wide DS. Do you know if there are adapters please?

[epatsellis]

RZ lens on a view camera is useless, no way to fire the shutter....an RB lens, on the other hand works well. I'll dig up a how to PDF from my old website and post a link later this weekend.

[Ian99]

Bob, I know of no commercially made adapter to mount an RB or RZ lens on a view camera. There is one for the Cambo X2 but that is a different animal.

I have mounted an RZ lens on my Toyo 4x5 by cutting a hole in an RZ lens cap and gluing to a W/A lens board. This was used with a bag bellows and a Nikon DSLR in place of the film holder. I have also machined my own more robust holder.

As Epatsellis points out, the RZ lenses have electronically controlled shutters but there is no way to control the shutter when mounted on a view camera.

The next step in my work on the RZ lens is to try and add lateral/vertical shift onto the Fotodiox adapter. I have done this with the RZ/Toyo/Nikon kludge but want something simpler that can use the enormous image circle of these lenses.

[Michael Erlewine]

I have been waiting for probably a year or so now for the Hartblei adapter, but finally just asked for my money back, etc. I sit here with a box of about 11 Mamiya RZ lenses. My question is, after all is said and done, are the RZ lenses on my Nikon D800E going to be all that great? I have the 140mm macro, a couple of the APO lenses, etc.

I would love to know what the results are like"? I have the Zeiss APO 135mm and 55mm Otus, so I can't imagine any RZ lenses improving on that.

[Ian99]

Michael, your macro work is well known and highly respected. I am also in awe at the amount of money you have spent at this hobby.

In my posts 3 years ago using a D300 I found the RZ lenses to be very good especially in the corners. I expect to post updated results with the D800 later in the week and probably the corner differences will be much greater.

However I suspect that you would never be satisfied with someone else’s review and you should try it yourself (or send me your Zeiss lenses so I can compare them !).

[Michael Erlewine]

Ian99:

I have ordered the Fotodiox adapter and have some of the best Rz67 lenses, so I will check it out. I guess the good money is on the center of the RZ67 lenses.

As for money spent, it is a game of musical chairts (lenses). I sell some, buy others. But right now I have about 80 lenses, 80% of which I will never use again... probably. I am going to sell them off, but keep the exotic industrials, a few mainstays, my fisheyes, and of course the APO lenses, especially the new Zeiss. I just posted my current state of mind on this forum under the name "UPDATE ON ZEISS APO AND FOCUS STACKING."

I am getting deep into video at the moment, as well.

[Ian99]

Following on from my first post in this thread, I have now tested my three RZ lenses (50, 100, and 180mm) against some of the lenses in my current line-up.

In one sense I am quite disappointed that I did not find “that Golden Oldie” that beats out all these new-fangled lenses.  On the other hand I now know a lot more about my current lenses than I did before and they are pretty good.

I think the test is a simple and practical one that enables one to rank lenses in order of sharpness. There are no absolute measures here.  The targets were two sheets of 8 1/2x11 paper printed with the series 987654321 in Times Roman font starting at 12 point and descending to 8 point.

50mm tests were done at a distance of 12 feet and 110mm and 180mm done at 20 feet. Lighting was artificial floods and constant. The D800 was mounted on a tripod and all shots were taken with manual exposure, manual focus with magnified Live View, mirror up, delay of about ten seconds then a remote release. 14 bit lossless compression NEF converted in ACR to TIFF. The best of three exposures was used for each sample. Nominally one should only compare the results within each set, but I think in practical terms it is useful to compare all the results no matter what set they came from.

Take a look at the results shown below. My view is that the RZ lenses are all much worse than the three Nikon lenses used as comparisons. The best of the bunch is the 180mm but that still does not compare favourably with the Nikon 70-200 F4. YMMV.
There are also some interesting anomalies which might teach us something about optimal sharpness apertures, but I leave that to you.

About three years ago I did a similar comparison with my D300 and merging the two sets of results together produces the following rough ranking of sharpness for various lenses:

Sharpest:      Nikon 70-200 F4
         Sigma 120-300 F2.8
         Mamiya RZ 180
         Mamiya RZ 110
         Tamron 90 f2.5
         Nikon 24-70 f2.8         
          Nikon EL F5.6
         Nikon 50 F1.8G
         Nikon 50 f1.8 AFD
         Nikon 80-200 F2.8
         Mamiya RZ 50
         Nikon 105 F2.5 AIS
Softest      Nikon 85 F1.4 AFD

Obviously this list is a bit subjective, but I have gone to considerable lengths to try and remove as much subjectivity as I can without buying a whole lab of equipment.

In one last point, I do not think that we should get too excited by minor differences between lenses. Technique is probably much more important in getting sharp results and the whole issue of printing is a great leveler of equipment..

[Michael Erlewine]

I sent you this in a personal message, in hopes that you see one or the other.

I received my Fotodiox adapter, but I can't figure out how to set the aperture. I see that the slide on the right side of my lens will open and close the shutter, but how to I fix it there at one f/stop or another? What is the T-slide? It must be that little button marked T, but how do I use it?

What I want is to set the aperture a various openings and test these lenses. Any help is appreciated.

[Ian99]

Hi Michael,
The T slide is for time exposure, for our purposes it just holds the shutter open.

1.   Hold the lens in your left hand with the mount facing towards you.
2.   With your left thumb slide the T slide clockwise until the T shows on the left and the slide remains in that position.
3.   Align the white dot on the bayonet locking ring with the red mark on the lens barrel.
4.   Offer up the adapter to the lens with the red line inside the adapter housing lined up with the red line on the lens.
5.   Turn the lens bayonet ring anticlockwise to lock the lens in place.
6.   Turn the large ring on the adapter anticlockwise so that the shutter opens and the lens appears wide open. Then turn the ring clockwise and the diaphragm will first close down then will open to the setting on the aperture ring. The aperture ring may now be turned to whatever setting you wish.

I bet you never had this much fun with your Zeiss APOs!

[Michael Erlewine]

Thanks! That worked. I don't have a ton of time today, but I worked through a few lenses. It is a bit of a chore. The 140mm Macro is sharp. The others, so far, don't look too great and many are not well-corrected, at least at first glance. Here is the Mamiya stuff I have left. I sold my RZ67 years ago, along with a 33MP digital back. My guess is I will sell most or all of the Mamiya equipment I still have, which is the following:

Mamiya RZ 250mm f/4.5 APO         
Mamiya RZ 65mm L-A
Mamiya RZ Shift-Lens 75mm F/4.5 W
Mamiya RZ 180mm (soft focus) F/4 M D/L w/3 disks   
Mamiya RZ 50 MM f/4.5 L
Mamiya RZ 150 f/3.5 W            
Mamiya RZ 150mm (soft focus) f/4 w/3 disks
Mamiya RB 090mm f/3.5 L lens for RB      
Mamiya RZ 210mm f/4.5 APO
Mamiya RZ 110mm F/2.8 W   
Mamiya RZ 140mm M f/4.5 Macro
Mamiya RZ K/L 90MM L f/3.5

Mamiya Tilt/Shift Adpter for &5mm f/4.5/180mm f/4.5 (SB) short barrel lenses
Mamiya RZ 090mm Prism Finder   
Mamiya RZ Extension Tube #1         
Mamiya RZ67 Pro II  Ext.Tube No.2 82mm

Really Right Stuff Mamiya Base Plate
MaMIYA rb/rz Bellows Hood G
Mamiya RZ67 145mm Lens Shade Hoodx2
Mamiya RZ Standard Rubber Hoods (3 copies)
Mamiya RZ MACR3645S Cable Release

[Michael Erlewine]

Ian99:

I have set up operations in a small studio. Right now I am using the larger Nikon Bellows PB-6, since I don't need tilt, etc. These lenses are very heavy, so want to be careful not to strain the Nikon D800E mount. Here is the problem I am having.

Using the 140mm Mamiya RZ lens as an example, which I know is perhaps the sharpest, I can't see well enough (even at full aperture) to focus finely. It would be easier in full sunlight, but when do I ever shoot in full sunlight? I guess only to test, but then why test when I could not use the lenses anyway, since I like shadows, and so on.

So I have a dilemma here. It would seem that these lenses, even if they are sharp (and some of them definitely are not) are exotic toys rather than working lenses, as far as I can tell.

Do tell me how you focus on real subjects, not charts. That may tempt me not to just get rid of them, as I have easy to use lenses great lenses at hand. I sure don't need another hobby and I have a ton of the exotic Nikkor industrial lenses to play with as it is.

Any light would be appreciated.

[Ian99]

Michael, there seems to be at least two issues here:

1.   “careful not to strain the Nikon D800E mount”..  I do not see how you can do that.  The PB-6 and most other bellows are supported by standards at both ends so the cantilever strain at the camera end is just as Nikon designed it.

If you are talking about shooting with just the D800, the Fotodiox adapter, and say the RZ 140mm, then the issue still does not apply.

I measured the space between the rear of the tripod foot and the lens mounting face for three configurations and the results are:
      Fotodiox   1.3cm
      Nikon 70-200 F4    2.4cm
      Sigma 120-300 F2.8    3.6cm

The cantilever strain is less on the Fotodiox than designed by either Nikon or Sigma when using their respective lens feet.

Also, if you were just using the tripod socket in the base of the D800E, consider that the weight of the old 80-200 F2.8 (push pull with no tripod foot) is 47 oz. The RZ 180mm plus adaptor only weighs 42 oz. The RZ 140 macro would only add 2 oz to this. So again strain is within design limitations.


2.    On the issue of it being too dark to focus then the RZ 140mm F4.5 macro is always going to be 2.5 stops darker than your Zeiss APO 135mm. On the other hand, using the RZ lenses directly with the Fotodiox adapter gives me no problem focusing if I use Live View.

I can see you would have a much greater problem if you are using a D800E plus a PB-6 plus a Fotodiox (which is just acting as a thick mounting ring) plus a RZ lens.

The only times I have used such a configuration, and this was well over a year ago, was with the lens reversed. The pic shown below has a D300 connected to a laptop running XP and Nikon’s Camera Control Pro v1. I had no problem with a darkened view, other than the poor Live View image. The laptop has since been upgraded to Win 7-32 so the old Nikon software does not work but I am told that v2 now works with both Win 7 and the D800. On the other hand there is probably much better software available anyway.

Before you ditch your RZ lenses, you might experiment a bit with lens reversal as I found the working distance/magnification to be quite beneficial compared to any other rig I could cobble together. 

Does this help or am I missing something??

[Michael Erlewine]

We are on the same page. I tried it both on a bellows and just with the adapter. As we all know, these RZ lenses are not fast, Even f/2.8 is rare, and many are much darker.

As for Live View, please don't get me started. After working with many mirrorless cameras, I am surprised that Nikon cannot do better.

I am not done fooling around with these lenses, but I am getting the impression that I am working for it than it is working for me. It does not strike me that this is something I want to do every day, unless the results are a lot better than what I am seeing so far. I will keep at it, as I find time.

Thanks for the input.