Fuji Rumor

[Ken R]

I would like the thank JV for reusing last year's Fujifilm medium format speculation thread, to keep all the discussions in one place, and I look forward to another revival next year, when some gossip website decides to warm up its hit count again.

P. S.  From what I have read, from named sources, it is an exaggeration to say that Fujifilm is "basically responsible for designing and making the Hasselblad H system".   Fujifilm has a big role in the lenses (but still with input from Hasselblad, as with lenses for earlier Hasselblad cameras) but AFAIK, Hasselblad was and is the main designer of the bodies.

Yes. My mistake.

Fuji is largely responsible for the lenses (Fujinon?) and the prism viewfinder.

Fuji did design and manufacture the Hasselblad XPan in its entirety.

[BJL]

Fuji did design and manufacture the Hasselblad XPan in its entirety.

Yes, the XPan does seem to have been Hasselblad's first and most honorable effort in "badge-engineering" another company's product.

[Ken R]

Yes, the XPan does seem to have been Hasselblad's first and most honorable effort in "badge-engineering" another company's product.

I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses). All others work with other manufacturers. In medium format PhaseOne works with Mamiya (Body and Some lenses) and Schneider (lenses but most are tweaked Mamiya Designs and the make the leaf shutters and make the necessary modifications in the design), Phase Only makes the backs (with sensors from Dalsa and Sony).

I am not sure if the Fuji X system is entirely Fuji's. The bodies and lenses im sure but don't know if the xtrans Sensor is just a modified sensor from another manufacturer.

Leica works with CMOSIS for their sensors and with Panasonic for a bunch of the lower end stuff. Besides the sensor the Leica S system is basically all Leica.

[Paul2660]

Anything is possible I guess. But I don't think a medium format x-trans is coming. During Photokina last year there was a huge buzz that Fuji was coming out with a full 35mm sized x-trans.  Fuji shot this down in an interview that was out on the web for a while staring they felt that x-trans was at its limit in the current APS-C size and there would not be anything larger.

Not to say they can't do it but to skip the much larger 35mm market for MF would seem a bit strange to me.

Paul

[Iluvmycam]

Anything is possible I guess. But I don't think a medium format x-trans is coming. During Photokina last year there was a huge buzz that Fuji was coming out with a full 35mm sized x-trans.  Fuji shot this down in an interview that was out on the web for a while staring they felt that x-trans was at its limit in the current APS-C size and there would not be anything larger.

Not to say they can't do it but to skip the much larger 35mm market for MF would seem a bit strange to me.

Paul

MF is nice, but all I want is an affordable Leica knockoff from Fuji in the $2500 range.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Regarding Fujinon and Hasselblad, I would say that there is a long standing cooperation. I wouldn't say that a Hasselblad is a rebadged Fujica. But, Fujinon is making a lot of Hasselblad's hardware.

With Leica, it is interesting. The sensor was developed by CMOSIS for Leica. CMOSIS is just a design house, the sensor is "fabbed" at ST Electronics a major chip maker based in Belgium, I believe. I may be wrong on some issues here.

In the end, what counts is how the tools work and far less who was making them.

Best regards
Erik

I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses). All others work with other manufacturers. In medium format PhaseOne works with Mamiya (Body and Some lenses) and Schneider (lenses but most are tweaked Mamiya Designs and the make the leaf shutters and make the necessary modifications in the design), Phase Only makes the backs (with sensors from Dalsa and Sony).

I am not sure if the Fuji X system is entirely Fuji's. The bodies and lenses im sure but don't know if the xtrans Sensor is just a modified sensor from another manufacturer.

Leica works with CMOSIS for their sensors and with Panasonic for a bunch of the lower end stuff. Besides the sensor the Leica S system is basically all Leica.

[MatthewCromer]

Canon uses Sony sensors 1" and smaller (for example the G7X, which has better dynamic range than Canon's own APS-sensored cameras).

[Telecaster]

At this point I doubt Fuji is interested in medium format (beyond their current Hasselblad alliance), but if they were to create a larger format product I think it'd be more likely to use a 44x33mm sensor than 36x24mm. The number of "full frame" users is certainly greater than that of MF cameras, but IMO Canikon & Sony have the 35mm market sewn up pretty tight. Much as I'd like to see Pentax succeed with its upcoming 35mm offering, I think the chance of that happening is low. Anyway, when it comes to traditional (that is, non-smart-device) photo gear we're likely at the start of a period of serious contraction. I can't see Fuji, for whom cameras are largely an indulgence, kicking off any major new product line in this environment. Same with Olympus.

-Dave-

[NickT]

But, Fujinon is making a lot of Hasselblad's hardware.

Basically Fujinon do the glass. I wouldn't call that "a lot of Hasselblad's hardware". Hasselblad make the shutters, bodies and backs. Fuji make the lenses which are Hasselblad designs.

[AlterEgo]

I think only Canon makes everything themselves (Camera Body, Sensor and Lenses).

Panasonic does the same

[eronald]

Panasonic does the same

Yes. That may be why they've been going steadily upmarket.

[Chris Livsey]

Yes. That may be why they've been going steadily upmarket.

That's because there is no bottom market any more, that slot is occupied with phones. The, well one of them, problem with going upmarket is R&D is amortised over fewer units and parts costs increases as volume drops, less units to buy unit cost increases, so final product cost is higher, relatively. Two words fit there, Phase & Hasselblad. Also note Fuji and Panasonic wouldn't notice if they stopped selling cameras at all, Nikon would be bust and Canon would be right behind them so the big players are strangely in a worse position despite having the largest current market shares. Sony are probably the most agile but then they don't have a legacy lens set to worry about keeping happy just several incomplete new lens lines that they would probably like to rationalise as they have skipped around.
So, Fuji MF, perhaps, depends, if they have a "champion" in the team driving it, the chip is there, Sony, the history is there, their own, the market though is small and probably shrinking, master marketer Doug excepted of course, but then do they need to look too hard at the bottom line and balance that with the prestige of being in MF land?
Odds are they have a prototype, or six, who wouldn't want to play with that chip in R&D, hence the rumours as there are probably bodies about, but bring it to market?

[Manoli]

Two words fit there, Phase & Hasselblad. Also note Fuji and Panasonic wouldn't notice if they stopped selling cameras at all, Nikon would be bust and Canon would be right behind them so the big players are strangely in a worse position despite having the largest current market shares [...] the market though is small and probably shrinking, master marketer Doug excepted of course, but then do they need to look too hard at the bottom line and balance that with the prestige of being in MF land?

Odds are they have a prototype, or six, who wouldn't want to play with that chip in R&D, hence the rumours as there are probably bodies about, but bring it to market?

Fuji seem to be dominating the APS-C market with both bodies and a lens lineup to match. In all likelihood we'll have a 24MP body soon. They've clearly stated they won't be competing in the 35mm FF sector and given Sony's success I would say that's a correct policy decision.

But there is a question mark as to whether they will continue with the x-trans sensor or revert to a Bayer one. I'm sure they've also seen the 'light' when it comes to the MF market, and taking a leaf out of Sony's success, they may well produce an MF body,  but one that will be (adapter) compatible with all the MF glass already out there. However I'd be the first to admit that I can't see why Sony wouldn't or couldn't do the same.

The decision is probably further complicated by the alleged sightings of Doug P surreptitiously using a Fuji rather than the full blown Phase kit he always keeps so ostentatiously on show. But as we've said all along - if you can't tell the difference, why not ?  [/just kiddin' you, Doug]   

[Manoli]

MF is nice, but all I want is an affordable Leica knockoff from Fuji in the $2500 range.

+1
and double that by copying Leica's S lens compatibility in a medium format body.

[armand]

They might try their hand with a compact fixed lens MF, the only one that would be a niche product.

[Doug Peterson]

I do own and love an xpro-1. At that form factor and price point it can't be beat (if, like me, you can't live without an optical viewfinder). If I could have something 20-30% bigger in form factor but with a good 33x44mm sensor I'd get it in a heart beat. A smaller mamiya 7-digital is on just about every photographers wish list.

[ndevlin]

+1.

This is the only (kind of) camera I presently miss having.

[eronald]

I do own and love an xpro-1. At that form factor and price point it can't be beat (if, like me, you can't live without an optical viewfinder). If I could have something 20-30% bigger in form factor but with a good 33x44mm sensor I'd get it in a heart beat. A smaller mamiya 7-digital is on just about every photographers wish list.

Doug, seems you are "preaching to the choir".
Are we getting a new Mamiya (7) body?



Edmund

[Hywel]

I'll add my two pennies worth... I'd buy a medium format, light weight, mirrorless Mamiya 7 digital right now.

The Mamiya is the one film camera I wish I'd kept. Not so much that I'm tempted to buy second hand, mind... (the only film camera I keep getting tempted by on eBay is an XPan, and I can't face going back to the days of film scanning).

So long as the price of a digi-Mamiya 7 was in the ballpark of top-end 35mm kit rather than Leica/Phase/Blad money, I'd order one immediately.

Cheers, Hywel

[MatthewCromer]

Fuji seem to be dominating the APS-C market with both bodies and a lens lineup to match.

Fuji has a nice APS system, but Sony seems to be outselling them 5 to 1 in the APS space.