Topic: Fuji Rumor (Read 47654 times)

chrismuc · « **Reply #80 on:** May 27, 2015, 08:27:24 am »

My 2 cent considerations:

IMO the possible release of a MF mirrorless camera could be a smart move by Fuji. Instead of competing directly with the Sony A7 mirrorless system in 36x24mm size size, they would accompany their more compact APS-C size X mirrorless system by a larger one covering user applications that require the highest image quality. Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times (with and without interchangeable lenses by Fuji, Mamiya and others) and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems. The today's technology advantage is, that such a camera must not be nessesarily a rangefinder but due to the digital sensor one can frame and focus perfectly using the latest excellent generation of electronical viewfinders.

Fuji already works with Sony sensors in their X series cameras so it's rather probable that they would choose the 44x33mm 50 MP Sony sensor for their cam which is great because this sensor provides the currently best combination of "resolution times dynamic range" plus required life view capability (via EVF or back screen). My hope is they would make the cam with interchangeable lenses (not fixed like X100) and with EVF (not rangefinder - EVF combi like X-Pro). Basically a scaled-up X-T1 with all these nice manual dials, so you seldomly have to scroll through the menus. Regarding the lenses my recommendation would be my preferred 4-lens-set-up (others might disagree :-) covering the 21-35-50-85 mm range in 135 format. The speed should be a good compromise between speed and weight/compactness, so my favorites would be (135 equivalents in brackets):

25f4.8 (= 21f4)
43f3.4 (= 35f2.

65f2.4 or 2 (= 55f2 or 1.7)
105f2.8 or 2.4 (= 85f2.4 or 2)

That would make a still compact and not too heavy system (compared to a mirror-reflex sytem like Leica S, Pentax 645, Contax 645, Phase, Hasselbald H), maybe not larger or heavier than a 5D, with a really top notch image quality. And the price for the body would be a fraction of a Leica S or a Phase + IQ250/Credo50.

The really cool thing is that such a camera - additionally - would offer a lot of the capabilities of a FPS + IQ250/Credo50 system (again for a fraction of the price): The short flange distance of presumingly about 30mm would allow many kinds of mechanical or electromechanical adapters and shift adapters to mount MF lenses of any kind for architecture photography. And even a Canon EF to Fuji adapter can be considered because between the two mounts is enough space (about 15mm) and therefore the Canon 11-24, TSE 17, TSE 24, 85f1.2 a.s.o. could be mounted or the Zeiss ZE 135f2 Apo, Leica R 180f3.4 Apo, Leica R 180f2.8 Apo ... which all have sufficient image circle for the 44x33mm sensor. Such an adapter (by Metabones or others) could provide auto aperture and even autofocus with Canon AF lenses.

So: Fuji please go ahead and just do it :-)

Christoph

Michael N. Meyer · « **Reply #81 on:** May 27, 2015, 05:56:22 pm »

I used to love the folding Fuji GS645--a small and light package with a great lens. I used it mostly for personal projects, so bcooter's issues with the Mamiya 7 didn't enter into the equation for me.

Like Doug, if Fuji could scale up the X-Pro1, which I shoot with now, to a GS645-like package with the 33x44 Sony sensor I would be thrilled. I even like the idea of a fixed lens or a limited set of lenses like the Bronica RF645. Such a camera would be a far better complement to my Fuji's APS cameras than the FF DSLR that complements them now.

It doesn't need to do everything. That was one thing that was great about the Fuji 645 variants: they didn't do everything and there wasn't a whole bag of stuff to take with you. You grabbed the camera and a few rolls of film and were out the door. Given the likely cost of such a camera I'd need to find ways to utilize the camera for commercial projects, but I wouldn't want commercial shooters' needs to be central in the design.

BJL · « **Reply #82 on:** May 27, 2015, 06:20:47 pm »

Quote from: bcooter on May 25, 2015, 03:20:55 pm

[the Mamiya 7] wouldn't shoot polaroids and it took two bodies minimum to have an assistant constantly changing film.

BC: these are two profoundly irrelevant considerations with a digital camera! But I can see that the "bigger than 35mm format non-SLR" was and is far more for walk-around usage than your "gear and crew intensive" professional working mode.

Christoph: you have a point that I had not thought much of before:

Quote from: chrismuc on May 27, 2015, 08:27:24 am

Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times . . . and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems.

The size and weight advantage of a mirrorless system (be it a rangefinder or an EVF camera) is greatest (1) with a larger format and (2) with lenses from wide-angle to a bit longer than normal; not long telephotos. So maybe there is a market for a mirrorless digital camera with something like the Sony 44x33mm CMOS sensor -- or the somewhat larger CMOS sensor that I expect Sony to launch next, as it continues to displace CCDs from medium format systems.

Interchangeable lenses would be essential: tying a nice, big, expensive sensor like that to a single lens would make the niche too small, and the kit too big as soon as one wants to carry more than a single focal length.

AlterEgo · « **Reply #83 on:** May 27, 2015, 06:50:52 pm »

Quote from: chrismuc on May 27, 2015, 08:27:24 am

My 2 cent considerations:

IMO the possible release of a MF mirrorless camera could be a smart move by Fuji. Instead of competing directly with the Sony A7 mirrorless system in 36x24mm size size, they would accompany their more compact APS-C size X mirrorless system by a larger one covering user applications that require the highest image quality. Such mirrorless cameras were rather popular and successful in 645, 67 and 69 size during film times (with and without interchangeable lenses by Fuji, Mamiya and others) and they already showed the weight and size advantage of mirrorless systems compared to mirror-reflex systems. The today's technology advantage is, that such a camera must not be nessesarily a rangefinder but due to the digital sensor one can frame and focus perfectly using the latest excellent generation of electronical viewfinders.

Fuji already works with Sony sensors in their X series cameras so it's rather probable that they would choose the 44x33mm 50 MP Sony sensor for their cam which is great because this sensor provides the currently best combination of "resolution times dynamic range" plus required life view capability (via EVF or back screen).

but you know, Sony Imaging also works with Sony sensors (from Sony Semi), so they might find themselves competing even before they blink

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #84 on:** May 28, 2015, 12:46:51 am »

Quote from: AlterEgo on May 27, 2015, 06:50:52 pm

but you know, Sony Imaging also works with Sony sensors (from Sony Semi), so they might find themselves competing even before they blink

I can so totally see an RX0 with a 35mm equivalent lens using that sensor!

The camera would probably still be smaller than most DSLRs.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald · « **Reply #85 on:** May 28, 2015, 05:00:13 am »

Those who like to travel light like the Mamiya 7, and even more the Fuji and Plaubel folders ...

Edmund

kers · « **Reply #86 on:** May 28, 2015, 06:57:13 am »

I think a digital mamiya 7 type of camera will not be that small..
Lenses have to be longer just to make sure that the angle of the light hitting the sensor is not to high to handle.
For that reason alone i think the beautiful mamiya 7 lenses will never be used digitally... a pity.

chrismuc · « **Reply #87 on:** May 28, 2015, 07:46:24 am »

... very few are

BJL · « **Reply #88 on:** May 28, 2015, 11:33:43 am »

Quote from: kers on May 28, 2015, 06:57:13 am

I think a digital mamiya 7 type of camera will not be that small..
Lenses have to be longer just to make sure that the angle of the light hitting the sensor is not to high to handle.
For that reason alone i think the beautiful mamiya 7 lenses will never be used digitally... a pity.

I agree that it is very unlikely that there will be a DMF camera in anything in close to the 70x56mm format of the Mamiya 7, and so lenses for that system will at most be usable with an adaptor and a substantial FOV crop, with a sensor no bigger than the the current 54x40mm of DMF, and maybe smaller, like 44x33mm. But the rumor is just "medium format" in its loose modern sense of "anything bigger than 36x24mm".

So about size:

1) The reduction is body size and weight could itself be substantial: the mirror box and prism needed for the 56x42mm of 645 film format is quite massive (compare a 645 SLR to the Fujifilm 645 rangefinder, for example) and also, the 645-derived systems from Hasselblad, Phase One/Mamiya and Pentax are all constrained to the body depth needed by that film format even when using smaller sensors like 44x33mm.

2) The angle of incidence issue is only a factor with wide-angle lenses (especially with newer micro-lens designs that are more tolerant of off-perpendicular incident light), and even there, mirrorless wides can be less bulky that SLR wides due to the design flexibility of allowing rear elements to be much closer to the sensor. Although the traditional symmetric designs of film rangefinders might not be usable, modern lens designs can have a sensor-friendly high exit pupil while having the rear elements close to the focal plane.

kers · « **Reply #89 on:** May 30, 2015, 10:38:45 am »

Quote from: chrismuc on May 28, 2015, 07:46:24 am

... very few are

AHA !
So tell me (us)- how well does it work?

Telecaster · « **Reply #90 on:** May 30, 2015, 02:21:19 pm »

IMO this makes a nice template for a fantasy Fuji:

Swap in an EVF for the rangefinder, et voilà!

-Dave-

BJL · « **Reply #91 on:** May 30, 2015, 04:01:23 pm »

Quote from: Telecaster on May 30, 2015, 02:21:19 pm

IMO this makes a nice template for a fantasy Fuji:

Swap in an EVF for the rangefinder, et voilà!

Except that it could be considerably less high, since the frame height would be no more than about 40mm (using the 53.7x40.3mm maximum sensor size offered for "645" cameras) instead of the 56mm frame height of that "6x6" film format camera. Maybe call it a "digital 5x4" to be honest, while confusing the LF old-timers.

hexx · « **Reply #92 on:** May 31, 2015, 03:11:01 pm »

that's the camera that goes with me on the trips, tried once Italy with Hassy and Leaf back on it but it was painful, luckily I had also this camera with me

Telecaster · « **Reply #93 on:** May 31, 2015, 05:08:51 pm »

Quote from: BJL on May 30, 2015, 04:01:23 pm

Except that it could be considerably less high, since the frame height would be no more than about 40mm (using the 53.7x40.3mm maximum sensor size offered for "645" cameras) instead of the 56mm frame height of that "6x6" film format camera. Maybe call it a "digital 5x4" to be honest, while confusing the LF old-timers.

Oh, sure. Scale the whole thing down a bit to suit the format size. But I do like the proportions of the Mamiya 6.

Hey, Canon had their "New" F-1 camera. Call this fantasy Fuji's format the "New 4x5."

-Dave-

MarkL · « **Reply #94 on:** June 05, 2015, 08:29:55 am »

Quote from: bcooter on May 25, 2015, 03:20:55 pm

Through my career, I've heard photographer's go on about the Mamiya 7 and I finally tried it, never really understood it.

Same for me, I owned a Mamiya 7 and really didn’t get on with it once the novelty of having 6x7 in such a small package wore off. The dof with 6x7 usually meant even with rangefinder benefits to handheld shutter speeds I had to carry a tripod much of the time. The frame lines were very inaccurate and I often ended up cropping much of the 6x7 frame away. Even worse was that with longer lenses the framed portion in the viewfinder was tiny. If you shoot shallow dof with wide angles all the time it might be a great camera. Luckily I bought mine with an 80mm for £530 and sold it for £700.

For a digital version, many of these things could be solved with EVFs.

JV · « **Reply #95 on:** January 16, 2016, 12:41:08 pm »

The Fuji rumor that resurfaces every year:
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/fuji-manager-takeshi-ueno-says-we-are-testing-medium-format-cameras/

JV · « **Reply #96 on:** January 25, 2016, 05:37:17 pm »

It is getting more concrete now:
http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-will-launch-a-medium-format-camera-top-trusted-japanese-source-new-source-says-it-will-come-at-photokina/

jamesconkle · « **Reply #97 on:** January 25, 2016, 07:33:24 pm »

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but I'm curious if a mirrorless medium format camera would allow for more than 1 to 3 focus points grouped very close to the center of the frame.

If I remember correctly from when I talked with Lau, from Phase One, he explained that the limiting factor in traditional MF bodies is the space required by the autofocus sensor to "see" from different parts of the image area, and for 35mm AF points the camera would need to be much much larger.

But, if the actual imaging sensor is handling focus this limitation would be lifted... maybe?

JaapD · « **Reply #98 on:** January 26, 2016, 07:00:46 am »

If I were Fuji’s R&D manager then I would ‘just’ scale up their X-Pro-2 design to accommodate a large MF sensor. In order to keep costs down and have a short time-to-market period they should keep all bells and whistles the same. I see this as a big but still incremental step in the design philosophy.

If they then produce a series of top notch lenses, similar class like the Mamiya 7 ones, then I’m sure it will be a big hit.

What do you think?

Paul2660 · « **Reply #99 on:** January 26, 2016, 12:01:41 pm »

As it's been made very clear that the Fuji X-trans is a Sony Sensor with a different filter array, Fuji has access to both the 50MP and maybe the 100MP (doubtful) chips from Sony.

They have mastered IMO the mirror less design, with both the rangerfinder and SLR designs and have excellent optics for these cameras. So, since this rumor has floated now for 2 years or so, Fuji may be been working on lenses, or they plan to modify or use GX680 glass, or optics that they make for Hasselblad (correct me if I have this wrong but I have been under the impression that Fujiion makes some of the Hasselblad glass?).

Either way, they have demonstrated both excellent customer/and firmware upgrades (amazing capabilities have been added to the X-T1 since anno), so I do look forward to this.

I am more concerned about raw support. C1 currently does an OK job on the X-trans files, but Phase has made it clear they will only support Phase Medium format, so that leaves Iridient, Camera raw/LR (less than stellar on current x-trans) and silkypix (terrible workflow) as the main contenders. LR has made statements about better raw support in the future but since June 2015 nothing new has been added.

Photokina seems to be the time of announce, so that give them a lot of time, and they still need to bring the 24Mp chip to the X-T1 (please).

Paul C

Author Topic: Fuji Rumor (Read 47654 times)