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Author Topic: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D  (Read 2844 times)

PBC

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Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« on: May 15, 2014, 07:44:10 am »

Question from a newbie on CCDs and hot pixels

When processing one of the images from my Pentax 645D, I noticed about 50 small white spots all over the image - looking like one pixel in size, which I assume are Hot pixels? Basically they look like tiny pin pricks; clean edged and round.

The shot was taken at ISO 100, 30 seconds, f/16

A following shot was taken at ISO 100, 1 second, f/13 and this didn't show any spots, so I assume they were hot pixels from the 30 second exposure.

If this is right, I would have expected Pentax's dark frame to have kicked in, but it didn't - and I have the noise reduction option turned on.

Would taking the image at ISO 100 affect the cameras decision to use a dark frame? 

As the Pentax's native ISO is 200, I wonder if using 100 affects the heat generated and the camera is not taking this into account when deciding it needs to use a dark frame?

I don't think there is a problem with the camera, but why this happens is confusing me so appreciate your thoughts

Thanks

Phil
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torger

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 07:49:29 am »

Hot pixels are a bit random and are thus not 100% cleaned up with dark frame. It's probably fully normal.

Hot pixels are much more common in many other CCD digita backs, for a 30 second exposure having many hundreds of them rather than 50 is not uncommon. Most raw converters have quite effective hot pixel cleanup tools though.
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eronald

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 07:56:39 am »

Hot pixels are a bit random and are thus not 100% cleaned up with dark frame. It's probably fully normal.

Hot pixels are much more common in many other CCD digita backs, for a 30 second exposure having many hundreds of them rather than 50 is not uncommon. Most raw converters have quite effective hot pixel cleanup tools though.

What is the mod to flag columns in Lightroom and dcraw? I have an M8 which has a dead column, and the price of the service is just too much.

Edmund
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PBC

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 08:06:07 am »

Was just about to ask a similar question.  How do I fix hot pixels in Lightroom without using 50 or so spot healing brush applications?

Thanks

Phil
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Paul2660

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 08:31:07 am »

Phil,

I would first do a bit more testing.  But anytime you take a CCD or CMOS for that matter past about 20 seconds, you are pushing that chip a bit and if you have heat and humidity in the shooting environment, you will get more possible problems. 

Traditional stuck pixels, tend to be red green or blue and I also believe that most of the dark frame algorithms are looking for that.  Where as a pure white may be overlooked. 

I do a lot of night photography with both Canon and Nikon (CMOS) but have shot with a P45+ for up to 1 hour.  The Canon 6D has a known issue with white spots, these however are a bit larger than the single pixel size you are talking about.  They will show up after about 1 hour of use and once there stay there for the rest of the night.  However as they are not numerous it's very easy to map them out later on in LR or C1.

The D800 on the other hand gets thousands of the single pixel whilte spots on hot or humid nights.  I wrote a article on my website about this.

http://photosofarkansas.com/2013/08/02/d800-reticulation-issues-during-night-photography-white-dot-problems/

I mainly shoot in stacks, so I can't use long noise reduction (dark frame) with Nikon or Canon as my stacks can run as long as 3 minutes each.  The dark frame will create a gap in the star trails that you may or may not be able to get out.  To their credit Canon does buffer some of this but the buffer issue creates other problems.  Nikon works just like your Pentax or Phase One, if turned on, the camera is dedicated to the dark frame as the next exposure. 

The Nikon white dots will happen on any warm or humid or both night, which in Arkansas are common. 

The best tool I have found to remove them without massive noise reduction destruction to the rest of the image is the "single Pixel noise reduction" slider in C1.  It can to an amazing job.  I realize that the 645D image (raw) can't be opened by Phase One, (another issue C1 should address if they want to be considered a "global raw tool" like LR).  However you might be able to save these raw conversions as a tiff and then open the tiff in C1 to use the single pixel noise reduction tool.  (You can download C1 as a trial for 60 days). 

You should also try to turn on the long exposure noise reduction on the 645D just as a test to see if it can see these white dots and map them out in the dark frame.  Each company handles this algorithm differently. 

I don't think anything is wrong with the camera at all, it's just the whole issue of long exposures on digital equipment.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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Ken R

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 08:31:22 am »

The "Single Pixel" Noise Reduction on Capture One Pro 7 works great for this. try it. It is awesome.
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PBC

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 08:43:48 am »

Thanks guys. I very nearly moved to C1 when I had my Nikon, but moving to the Pentax stopped that.  Pity as I liked what I saw, but not supporting the 645D stops me moving to it from LR

Now if they could support 645D PEF files, I (and I expect a lot of others) would move to C1 in a shot.   But for now I will remain on LR.

Phil
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Manoli

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 09:13:47 am »

The best tool I have found to remove them without massive noise reduction destruction to the rest of the image is the "single Pixel noise reduction" slider in C1.  It can to an amazing job.  I realize that the 645D image (raw) can't be opened by Phase One, (another issue C1 should address if they want to be considered a "global raw tool" like LR).  However you might be able to save these raw conversions as a tiff and then open the tiff in C1 to use the single pixel noise reduction tool. 

Another option would be to open the the 645D (raw) image in Irideient Developer and use the "Processing Disabled" Output Mode which will bypass all image adjustment and colour matching operations then export linear files for C1 and the SPNR.
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torger

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Re: Hot Pixel Question on Pentax 645D
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 09:46:53 am »

Oh, permanently dead pixels, not the same as temporary hot pixels which I guess the original poster's problem is.

In dcraw you have the .badpixels file, or use a separate text file with -P deadpixels.txt. I haven't used the feature myself so I don't know how it's used but I guess google can answer that.

I don't know if Lightroom has such a feature or not.

What is the mod to flag columns in Lightroom and dcraw? I have an M8 which has a dead column, and the price of the service is just too much.

Edmund
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