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Author Topic: Debunking the Myth  (Read 5342 times)

Rajan Parrikar

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Debunking the Myth
« on: May 10, 2014, 09:17:01 pm »

"All photography is an accident."

Debunking the Myth.

Iluvmycam

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 10:50:37 pm »

By no means an accident. Sure luck is involved, but skill is the main foundation.
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RSL

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2014, 06:51:59 am »

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langier

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 10:30:09 am »

Luck favors the prepared...
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Larry Angier
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Isaac

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Debunking the Debunking
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 02:04:02 pm »

Quote
"…you will learn not only that there was no timing involved, HC-B couldn’t even see the subject when he pressed the button! "

Cartier-Bresson: "I couldn't see a thing through the viewer". Is there any reason to think that "HC-B couldn’t even see the subject" with his eyes ?

(Hold the camera portrait. Align the view finder with the gap in the fence. Check what's in the frame. Move the camera sideways. Align the lens with the gap in the fence. Can't see a thing through the view finder. Watch what's happening through the gap in the fence. Click. Click. Click.)


Quote
…“I did remember that I saw his contact sheet of this picture (means Behind the Gare Saint-Lazare), I am so surprised that people these days doubt that picture is a “Set Up Picture”, I know it is NOT because I read the contact sheet from Henri Cartier-Bresson for that picture.” David Hurn told me that Henri Cartier Bresson was actually stand in a same place and waiting people to jump over the water, he captured every best moment and choose the “Best of the Best” moment to become this most famous picture - “Behind the Gare St. Lazare”.

Quote
Everyone thought his was a pure chance, a piece of luck. Once again, it was but only to a certain degree. The contact sheet showed us that HCB had tried some 10 times to obtain that shot. With other cyclists, passers-by, pedestrians and such. He then chose the best one out of all those other ones and it became this incredibly famous image. [Th]e rest of them never saw the light of day.


As-in -- Be Aware of “Pregnant Moments”
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 05:33:22 pm by Isaac »
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RSL

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 06:20:07 pm »

Of course, Isaac. I think the translation of what HCB said might have been a bit off. What he was saying is that he couldn't see the scene through the split-image viewfinder. After all, the Leica isn't an SLR. But he certainly could see the scene through the crack in the fence.
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Isaac

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2014, 07:18:43 pm »

I think the translation of what HCB said might have been a bit off.

Why? afaict Thomas Pindelski's blog post just takes Cartier-Bresson's translated words out-of-context.

When Cartier-Bresson is asked "You couldn't see the man leaping?" and answers "No.", Thomas Pindelski takes that to mean he couldn't see the man leaping at all but Cartier-Bresson is still talking about what he could see in the view finder.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 07:33:53 pm by Isaac »
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RSL

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 05:57:12 am »

Reading comprehension problem, Isaac? That's almost exactly what I said. Translation doesn't necessarily mean language.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 11:11:28 am »

You got to love it when Isaac continues to argue with us even when we (occasionally) agree with him?  :)

Isaac

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 12:41:18 pm »

Reading comprehension problem, Isaac?

Not on my part.
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Isaac

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 01:09:37 pm »

Debunking the Myth.

So far, Thomas Pindelski hasn't seen fit to accept this comment on his blog: Cartier-Bresson: "I couldn't see a thing through the viewer". Is there any reason to think that "HC-B couldn’t even see the subject" with his eyes ?

I suppose it would undermine what he wants to say about photography; and what he wants to say about photographers who can no longer answer his lil barbs.
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Rand47

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 02:52:32 pm »

You got to love it when Isaac continues to argue with us even when we (occasionally) agree with him?  :)

Passive aggressives just can't help themselves.   ;D

Rand
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amolitor

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 07:49:23 am »

I don't care if he could see the leaping man or not, and to be concerned with whether or not be could is to entirely miss Cartier-Bresson's point as well as to miss the essential mechanic of street.

Be open, be receptive. Shoot when you think it's right. You can't do it consciously. There are elements you will see but they are never the whole of it. Who cares if the leaping man was one of the things he saw consciously or not?
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RSL

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 08:06:00 am »

Hear, hear, Andrew. Exactly! That's the thing we all can learn from HCB. As he said: "You have to be receptive. That's all."
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Isaac

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 01:55:59 pm »

You can't do it consciously.

The things we do "consciously" are usually things we haven't mastered.


There are elements you will see but they are never the whole of it. Who cares if the leaping man was one of the things he saw consciously or not?

Yes, there will usually be elements that were not seen; but the puddle-jumper is a large part of the photo, not a small incidental detail.

Apparently Cartier-Bresson used the fence as a hide and took several photos of puddle-jumpers -- method not magic.
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amolitor

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2014, 02:31:20 pm »

The point, though, is that in the very best street photos, there is a strong element of serendipity. Our methods, our skills and talents, can produce work that is only so good. Only by making a lot of that work, and by embracing the possibility of luck, do we occasionally produce greatness.

This, I believe, is what HCB means. Skill and talent surely must be there. But also there must be luck. In the greatest pictures, there is always luck.

Also, I think you are completely on the wrong track to propose that mastery tends toward unconscious activity. Surely, for the trivia of the work. Setting the shutter speed, mixing the plaster, kneading the dough, we don't think much of it. But for mastery we need to strive to be conscious of what matters. If we slide and are unconscious of the texture of the dough as we knead, our bread becomes mediocre. It seems inconceivable that HCB was not intensely conscious of what was in the frame. But still it's luck. It's always luck. And then the word he leaves out: too.
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Isaac

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2014, 02:57:31 pm »

…what HCB means. … But also there must be luck. In the greatest pictures, there is always luck.

Intentionally so, for a surrealist ;-)


If we slide and are unconscious of the texture of the dough as we knead, our bread becomes mediocre.

If you're constantly asking yourself - Does the dough feel right? Does the dough feel right? - I'll get my bread elsewhere :-)
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amolitor

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2014, 03:19:26 pm »

If you're constantly asking yourself - Does the dough feel right? Does the dough feel right? - I'll get my bread elsewhere :-)

I am. And I am an outstanding baker.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2014, 03:38:45 pm »

Finally some food for thought in this thread!

RSL

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Re: Debunking the Myth
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2014, 04:32:26 pm »

Oh dear. Shame, shame, Slobodan.
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