post pentax 645z

[eronald]

Edmund -

You're incorrect that "no customer likes to live with" the P1 solution. The vast majority of our sales occur on Phase One 645 bodies, though clients have the option of numerous other systems, including the Hasselblad.

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's the worlds greatest camera, but I am also not saying that it is the height of Phase One's ambitions (in terms of camera systems).

I will respond by saying all of this is early in the book and I believe that your perspective is pre-mature in terms of how the story will continue to develop.

I don't know about your Microsoft perspective, but I don't see the same situation at all with Phase One anyway. It may appear that way to you, but Microsoft has shown their business strategy for a far longer period of time than Phase One has had investment into the Mamiya company. Phase One has generally achieved in their segment by having superior products and technology - the Mamiya camera is not their legacy nor their crowning achievement, it is a starting point to a sustainable digital platform. While they have turned it around since then, at the time, it was hard to imagine how sustainable DHW might be. And those were the options at the time.

I think Phase One did well with the hand it was dealt - and we'll see where they head in the future, when it comes to camera systems. I of course know nothing - but it wouldn't surprise me to see surprises.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Steve,

 The question here is what "likes" means

 Would Phase have far greater sales if there were something not better but plain good? Would MF in general fare better if there were an MF camera that had the abilities of a C or N, upscaled, with all the bells and whistles in focus, looks, lenses, accessories?

 At the moment I believe people buy MF mostly because they like the files, and tolerate the limitations of the cameras and the aggravation of high back/system prices. To the contrary, a lot of us buy dSLRs specifically for the features of the cameras and the genuine pleasure one gets from using them - think of the wonderful look of the Canon super-telephotos, the wide range of primes and stabilized zooms, the speedy and mostly spot-on of focus and follow-focus of the pro SLRs, the frame rates, the bright finders, decent review screens and ability to shoot in the quasi dark. And the low prices of some prosumer models. And then we accept that the files from the dSLRs have limitations. I don't think anyone here in this forum would claim that a Mamiya and a Canon 1Dx are closer relatives than a Sausage-Dog and a German Shepherd.


 Frankly, I have no *need* for MF, and I suspect that with the ability to stitch with Canon shift lenses, and the D800 and A7R out there only about 5% of the pros and 5% of the amateurs at most feel they *need*  SLR-MF (not tech cam).  So the question is how many of the other 95% will buy an MF camera, and how many of the total will go Phase, H, Pentax or Leica in body. And then if you do the maths again you see that if people hate the cameras then the choices of the 5% who feel they *need* the files are determinative, if people love the cameras the choices of the other 95% who buy what they like make the market.

 YMMV

 Edmund

PS. Put me in the camp of the 95%. I have no *need* for MF. And I had MF and opted out of MF because the price/feature/bother didn't make sense any more. The files were ok, the experience was not. I would really like to use MF again if the price/feature/usability combination were acceptable.

[Ben Rubinstein]

Just to put into perspective my use of the term 'Mamiya Junk', ours has caused us no end of problems and when we are thinking of the need for a backup body just to have while the other is away for repair, but when that simplistic backup body which has hardly managed to reach two decades old camera technology, is almost the cost of the entire 645Z my eyes start to cross and steam comes from my ears....

[MrSmith]

£4500 for a 645df+  which is nuts when you compare the technology that goes into a d800/A7r/645z and the prices charged. i could understand if the df+ was associated with the phrase ‘jewel like precision and reliability’ but it’s a long way from that.

[Ken R]

£4500 for a 645df+  which is nuts when you compare the technology that goes into a d800/A7r/645z and the prices charged. i could understand if the df+ was associated with the phrase ‘jewel like precision and reliability’ but it’s a long way from that.

So if the Phase/Mamiya DF/DF+ (and lenses) were much cheaper new the they would not get pounded as much in the forums? Where is that line?

[MrSmith]

the lenses are well made and high quality and their prices reflect that, quality costs money. the phase body is the weak link in the chain compared to the rest of the system.

[Ben Rubinstein]

So if the Phase/Mamiya DF/DF+ (and lenses) were much cheaper new the they would not get pounded as much in the forums? Where is that line?

If it were a normal price, say $1200, then all we could cream it about is being a frankly terrible camera to be marketing in 2014.

[Paul2660]

I have the DF, but don't shot it much anymore since I moved to a tech camera for wides.  However if you are looking for a backup, I would look in the used channel.  There are several DF bodies on ebay, or the forum for sale sites, like this site or getdpi. Sure it's used, but it's also a backup and prices seem to run from $1500.00 to 2K.  Still a bit more than $1,200 but lots less than the 5,995.00 for a new one (or is it $4995.00)  I have not checked in a while. 

Main differences I was able to see between the DF and DF+ were more accurate (on first press of shutter release) AF and the LI battery back, which makes a huge difference. 

I don't see the Mamiya stuff as junk.  I personally am very thankful for Mamiya and their MF lineup.  It let me start stitching with 35mm back in 2003 with a Zork adapter for use with Canon bodies using the Mamiya 35mm and 55mm MF lenses.  Then I switched to the P45+ and AFDIII, upgraded to a DF and the only issue I ever had was the AA  battery life and that's a well known issue.  My DF has been through the wringer and still keeps working. 

Phase One has also continued to further the lineup with their partnership with Mamiya and the creation of the LS lenses, all of which are excellent lenses. 

I agree the DF+ body is long in the tooth and is not full featured like a D800 or 5D MKIII, but it can get the job done.  If you use a lot of focus points sure it's not the camera for you.  I also believe that Phase will come out with a newer body sooner than later to compliment the IQ250, as the current DF+ would be a limited factor for many photographers looking for AI focus, action work, etc.  I realize it has the feature set, but it's not really up to the task with only one focus point in the center.   I also agree that the price point for current feature set is way out of line.  I would also be wary of buying a DF+ new with a new body on the horizon.  Phase can't charge much more than the current price of the DF+ if they plan to sell any of them (well they can always charge anything they want the market will determine if it's a good price or not)

September will be interesting.

Paul

[EricWHiss]

...with a new body on the horizon.

I haven't heard anything about a new phase camera for a while.  After two years of talk about a new body, the rumor mill has gone quiet which of course could mean something is imminent and lips are sealed or there is nothing there.  Are you sure there will be a completely new phase body at photokina?  Of course we all are curious. Most of the things Phase has done from scratch are top notch.

[mariapia]

Considering that I could afford only a P30+ of the Phase One backs, would you say that such a back on a Hasselblad 503cw is still preferable to a Pentax 645z.
I hate all the "extras" of the Pentax and I love manual medium formats camera, but I cannot afford a P45+ or a P65...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would suggest that you consider what your needs are.

If you want to shoot Hasselblad V-series the P30+ would be a nice alternative, I think.

The Pentax 645Z gives you:

- Quite a few more pixels
- A wider dynamic range
- Live view that is very helpful in accurate focusing
- Very good high ISO performance
- Well working AF

Than, there are some other things to consider, like lenses. If you shoot outdoors flash, leaf shutter versus focal plane shutter is a consideration.
With small sensors like the P30+ and P645Z wide angles are limited. Pentax makes a 25 mm lens, but it is very expensive. The widest lens on the Hasselblad V series is the 40/4 Distagon, which corresponds to about 52 mm on film.

Best regards
Erik

Considering that I could afford only a P30+ of the Phase One backs, would you say that such a back on a Hasselblad 503cw is still preferable to a Pentax 645z.
I hate all the "extras" of the Pentax and I love manual medium formats camera, but I cannot afford a P45+ or a P65...

[Pics2]

Considering that I could afford only a P30+ of the Phase One backs, would you say that such a back on a Hasselblad 503cw is still preferable to a Pentax 645z.
I hate all the "extras" of the Pentax and I love manual medium formats camera, but I cannot afford a P45+ or a P65...

Aptus 22 and P25 are also good "starving student" MF solutions. At least, they have bigger sensor compared to P30.

[uaiomex]

Same here. My 500CM could well be the best camera again with a live view cmos 48 square sensor. Just like me and my 500 there must be thousands of V camera owners around the world in the same situation.
Talking about the 44X33 sensor, 52mm is fine. For years I used a 50mm CF as sole WA because I couldn't afford the 40. Only the CF-IF 40 is expensive these days. But inflation and digital media format madness makes it look "affordable".
Eduardo

"Considering that I could afford only a P30+ of the Phase One backs, would you say that such a back on a Hasselblad 503cw is still preferable to a Pentax 645z.
I hate all the "extras" of the Pentax and I love manual medium formats camera, but I cannot afford a P45+ or a P65..."

"The widest lens on the Hasselblad V series is the 40/4 Distagon, which corresponds to about 52 mm on film."

[KAHA]

  Some great news for higher sync speeds on the 645Z taken from the image resource and pentax forum.

Presuming the 645Z operates in the same way as the 645D the Pentax LS lenses will work
(namely the Telephoto 135mm f/4 LS and the 90mm f2.8 LS via the 67 lens adapter 645) but with some limitations......

You'll need to expose manually, shoot in single-frame mode, can't use mirror lockup, can't bracket, no exif data or lens corrections etc. and of course you'll have to focus manually.

The flash will need to be connected to the X-sync connector on the lens itself for full flash sync speeds up to 1/500th of a second 

[BernardLanguillier]

Some great news for higher sync speeds on the 645Z taken from the image resource and pentax forum.

Presuming the 645Z operates in the same way as the 645D the Pentax LS lenses will work
(namely the Telephoto 135mm f/4 LS and the 90mm f2.8 LS via the 67 lens adapter 645) but with some limitations......

You'll need to expose manually, shoot in single-frame mode, can't use mirror lockup, can't bracket, no exif data or lens corrections etc. and of course you'll have to focus manually.

The flash will need to be connected to the X-sync connector on the lens itself for full flash sync speeds up to 1/500th of a second 

Those limitations don't seem too bad for the type of shooting when LS lenses would be used.

cheers,
Bernard

[KAHA]

With the very reasonably priced FA and 67 leaf shutter lenses + higher flash sync speeds, fast tethering via proprietry USB 3.0, full live view display/previews, remote camera control, wireless image transfer via the FLU card LAN function to IOS or Android phones/tablets and fast 27 point AF.....it looks like the 645Z more than meets all the requirements I'm looking for in a portable high rez MF camera at a price point that just really makes me smile

[uaiomex]

Finallt all questions and mysteries will start being answered on June 27th. Release date.
Eduardo