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Author Topic: Thunderbolt on Windows  (Read 7532 times)

armand

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Thunderbolt on Windows
« on: May 02, 2014, 03:26:34 pm »

My current computer will probably die and I'm contemplating building it myself (again) as I can save at least 2-300 on a similar build by a smaller builder. I could make it cheaper than my build if I buy from HP or maybe Dell but I risk losing upgradeability.
For future proof I would like Thunderbolt support.
Although the Thunderbolt is out for quite a while there are very few motherboards on the market that support it. The few on Newegg are out of stock or just not available anymore and it seems they had issues.
Even fewer that support Thunderbolt 2.
Is it worth it in Windows or not yet?

I also found this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995027 which looks very interesting, It would make the decision easier. Any experiences with this?


PS. I guess I could buy a Macbook Pro with maxed proc and RAM but will get me at 3000 vs 2000 or less and most importantly I'm not in a mood to learn another OS and get new programs unless the Windows part is subpar. A Macpro it's just not worth it for me.

kaelaria

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2014, 04:46:04 pm »

It hasn't taken off for PCs because it's not needed, like it is with Macs.  We don't need to live off external devices, and already have fast formats like eSATA. 
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Ellis Vener

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2014, 04:56:50 pm »

"We don't need to live off external devices"

You might not, but I'm sure there are many, many more PC users who do use external RAID , JBOD, and Drobo storage devices.
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kaelaria

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2014, 05:07:47 pm »

True - but it's a choice.  No choice with Macs, which is my point.
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BobShaw

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 07:32:48 pm »

True - but it's a choice.  No choice with Macs, which is my point.

I am not clear what you are talking about. The same USB devices work on Macs, but people prefer 20Gb/S to 5Gb/s. It's true that disk speed may slow that but disks get faster, especially if you stripe them. You can also daisy chain which you can't do with USB.
I am sure PC users will eventually get Thunderbolt, the same way they eventually got the mouse, whatever that was. :)
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kaelaria

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 09:47:39 pm »

No one said anything about usb. PCs can use large internal builds is the point. Or fast external if we choose. As I said we don't NEED to live off externals so thunderbolt has never been important or a big feature. I never said anything about which is better so no need for defensive fanboyism I'm just telling you why the PC industry doesn't have to care about one of the needs of macs.
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D Fosse

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 03:36:30 am »

You can't just pop open an iMac and put in more drives if you need to expand. That's the point.
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BobShaw

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2014, 04:17:10 am »

Thank you D Fosse for a professional explanation of the apparent issue.

No you can't pop open an iMac and put in extra disks easily but the same is also true of a lot of PCs unless you have one of those giant boxes that people used to have under their desk. You certainly could put extra drives in the previous Mac Pros but these days the world is moving to external drives because they are so easy to replace as the need for more capacity increases. My latest iMac I just went for a 500G SSD and everything other than the OS and apps is external. A pile of Drobos and you are away for ever.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 05:45:10 am »

My current computer will probably die and I'm contemplating building it myself (again) as I can save at least 2-300 on a similar build by a smaller builder. I could make it cheaper than my build if I buy from HP or maybe Dell but I risk losing upgradeability.
For future proof I would like Thunderbolt support.
Although the Thunderbolt is out for quite a while there are very few motherboards on the market that support it. The few on Newegg are out of stock or just not available anymore and it seems they had issues.
Even fewer that support Thunderbolt 2.
Is it worth it in Windows or not yet?

I also found this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995027 which looks very interesting, It would make the decision easier. Any experiences with this?


PS. I guess I could buy a Macbook Pro with maxed proc and RAM but will get me at 3000 vs 2000 or less and most importantly I'm not in a mood to learn another OS and get new programs unless the Windows part is subpar. A Macpro it's just not worth it for me.

If you really like to build a machine for yourself and like to select the specific components then that's a good choice. I did that years back, but since I also travel a lot I later changed to a MacBook Pro and this is my only machine now for 5 years. The new MBP retina is a marvelous, although expensive, piece of machine. It's fast, it is relatively light, nice retina screen, 1TB SSD. It can run OS X and also Windows. Supports up to two external 2560x1600 displays simultaneous with the built-in display. Thunderbolt and USB3. It's quiet and the fan only comes on with heavy CPU work like preview generation in Lightroom, otherwise completely silent which I really like. For normal editing in Lightroom or Photoshop the fan does not make any noise. The top end model with Quad Core i7, 1TB SSD, 16GB ram with an external big display, mouse and keyboard is a nice desktop as well.

D Fosse

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 06:13:04 am »

Thank you D Fosse for a professional explanation of the apparent issue.

You're welcome  ;)

Sorry, not trying to be smart. But there is a real case at the bottom of this. Win users don't have to rely on external devices to the same extent, and that means the market isn't there. That's just a fact, deny it all you wish.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2014, 07:22:01 am »

You're welcome  ;)

Sorry, not trying to be smart. But there is a real case at the bottom of this. Win users don't have to rely on external devices to the same extent, and that means the market isn't there. That's just a fact, deny it all you wish.

Win "desktop" users don't have to rely on external devices to the same extent....

There, I fixed it.
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D Fosse

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2014, 07:46:08 am »

Point taken  :)
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2014, 11:47:26 am »

My current computer will probably die and I'm contemplating building it myself (again) as I can save at least 2-300 on a similar build by a smaller builder. I could make it cheaper than my build if I buy from HP or maybe Dell but I risk losing upgradeability.
For future proof I would like Thunderbolt support.
Although the Thunderbolt is out for quite a while there are very few motherboards on the market that support it. The few on Newegg are out of stock or just not available anymore and it seems they had issues.
Even fewer that support Thunderbolt 2.
Is it worth it in Windows or not yet?

I also found this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995027 which looks very interesting, It would make the decision easier. Any experiences with this?


PS. I guess I could buy a Macbook Pro with maxed proc and RAM but will get me at 3000 vs 2000 or less and most importantly I'm not in a mood to learn another OS and get new programs unless the Windows part is subpar. A Macpro it's just not worth it for me.

Last year I built a system using this thunderbolt board:

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4279#ov

It has been flawless.  That said I've not used the Thunderbolt.  But then again I don't use the Thunderbolt on my Macs either for external storage.  (2-Mac minis, a 13 Retina, 13 Macbook Air and 2 15 Macbooks)  I do use it for external video connections and connection to my network with the 13 Retina and Macbook Air.

Don't be afraid of going to OSX, it was an easy switch and I was a windows guy forever.
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 02:31:21 pm »

"We don't need to live off external devices"

You might not, but I'm sure there are many, many more PC users who do use external RAID , JBOD, and Drobo storage devices.

so do you have an external device that can saturate even USB 3.0 port in a real life (not theoretical multiplications) ? and enterprising PC owner can always get couple of infiniband cards and use DIY storage device from his old tower.
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jjj

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2014, 04:54:46 pm »

Win "desktop" users don't have to rely on external devices to the same extent....

There, I fixed it.
Actually, you can buy dual HD or add extra internal HDs to many Windows laptops if you want to. Unlike with all Macs, where you only get one paltry drive and no way of adding another, so you have no option but to use Thunderbolt for extra storage.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 05:31:05 pm »

Actually, you can buy dual HD or add extra internal HDs to many Windows laptops if you want to. Unlike with all Macs, where you only get one paltry drive and no way of adding another, so you have no option but to use Thunderbolt for extra storage.

Wrong.  Both of my 15 inch MacBook Pro laptops have two drives, an sdd and a standard hard drive.  

And let's also not forget the wonderful invention called USB.  Or Ethernet. Or in the case of my 15 inch MBP's, FireWire.

Even worse, I have 4 different windows laptops as well and not a one allows for a second drive internally...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 05:48:08 pm by Craig Lamson »
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Farmer

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2014, 06:05:27 pm »

There are always exceptions to prove any case, but the reality (r e a l i t y) is that PCs are in general more easily expandable internally than Macs, be it desktop, tower, server or notebook, than Macs.  For that reason, there has been less impetus for Thunderbolt on Windows and so we don't see as many options or as much uptake.

USB, Firewire, Ethernet, etc - are all very slow compared to SATA3 or PCI-e.

That doesn't make Mac bad or PC good or vice versa - it just "is".

In time, the market may change, but not yet.
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Phil Brown

Craig Lamson

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2014, 07:07:13 pm »

There are always exceptions to prove any case, but the reality (r e a l i t y) is that PCs are in general more easily expandable internally than Macs, be it desktop, tower, server or notebook, than Macs.  For that reason, there has been less impetus for Thunderbolt on Windows and so we don't see as many options or as much uptake.

USB, Firewire, Ethernet, etc - are all very slow compared to SATA3 or PCI-e.

That doesn't make Mac bad or PC good or vice versa - it just "is".

In time, the market may change, but not yet.

I just love " generally"....


The r e a l i t y is that if consumers want thunderbolt on a PC they can find it.  The other r e a l I t y is like the vast majority of Mac buyers, the vast majority of PC buyers will never even attempt to crack open their PC to try and upgrade it.  I SUSPECT  that the R E A L I T Y for the lack of thunderbolt on mass market PC's is purely price point related.

That is neither good or bad, it just. "is".

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Farmer

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2014, 09:03:39 pm »

Generally is an important concept to master as it gives you an understanding of what is happening in the majority of cases.

I believe you are wrong.  The price point isn't the issue.  Many PC users pick up new gear regardless of prices, sometimes because they want the latest, sometimes because they're uninformed, plus many other reasons.  Of course a higher price will limit the uptake.  However, demand is lower because there is less need.  It's still easier and cheaper to do an internal upgrade (not to mention "full" speed performance) on a PC than a Mac.  As such, there's less driving force for an alternative at this point.

So, you can employ sarcasm by all means, but it doesn't alter the strength of your arguement, which is low.

I also don't understand your agressive attitude, but perhaps you've decided to externalise other things that are best left internal?
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Phil Brown

Craig Lamson

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Re: Thunderbolt on Windows
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2014, 10:28:14 pm »

Generally is an important concept to master as it gives you an understanding of what is happening in the majority of cases.

I believe you are wrong.  The price point isn't the issue.  Many PC users pick up new gear regardless of prices, sometimes because they want the latest, sometimes because they're uninformed, plus many other reasons.  Of course a higher price will limit the uptake.  However, demand is lower because there is less need.  It's still easier and cheaper to do an internal upgrade (not to mention "full" speed performance) on a PC than a Mac.  As such, there's less driving force for an alternative at this point.

So, you can employ sarcasm by all means, but it doesn't alter the strength of your arguement, which is low.

I also don't understand your agressive attitude, but perhaps you've decided to externalise other things that are best left internal?

Who is being aggressive?  Oh wait that might have been Farmer?  Gosh. Is that R E A L I T Y?  

Easier and cheaper?  Really?  Let's review?  Is a memory upgrade on a Mac mini for example, easier or cheaper on a similar PC?    How about a upgrade from a standard hard drive to an sdd on a non retina MBPS and most any PC laptop?  

Generalization...ya just gotta love it.

My argument is doing just fine,  too bad it seems to be beyond your ken.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 09:19:31 am by Craig Lamson »
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