Coating fine art paper with deckled/torn edges

[huguito]

I made a print on the epson cold press natural that I plan to frame with the edges torn/deckled, mounted to a board. without glass. The ripped edges of the paper will be exposed

My question is about coating the paper before mounting it, should I coat before or after tearing the edges of the print?

Hugo

[huguito]

Really?

Nobody has an opinion if the edges should be teared or deckled from the paper before or after coating the paper?

[MHMG]

Not enough information. What inks, what coating? Is this a borderless image or one with plenty of margin? What is the objective...short term display or very long term display?

[hugowolf]

Really?

Nobody has an opinion if the edges should be teared or deckled from the paper before or after coating the paper?

You can't get a deckled edge after the fact. A deckled edge is formed by the deckle: the wooden frame surrounding the screen on which the paper forms from the fibres. Even with true fine art paper, you will often end up with two deckle edges and two torn edges.

I have tried to create a 'good' torn edge through the ink. It didn't work with or without coating (Hahnemuhle Protective spray). Even without the protective coating, the paper top layer with ink tore differently than the base paper. You might get away with it in the borders, but not with a full bleed print.

From my experience, you would be better starting with deckle and/or torn edges, then printing.

Epson UltraChome K3 VM, Canson Rag 310 and 210, Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, 308, and Hahnemuhle German Etching 310.

I had planned to try wetting the paper at the tear line with water and a clean water colour brush. I haven't had time to try this yet. The Epson inks are very waterproof.

Brian A

[enduser]

We have done a few prints on deckle edged artists water color paper, with a heavy textured surface.  We liked the results given a careful image selection, but we always used paper sizes where the manufactured edge went round all four sides.

[hugowolf]

We have done a few prints on deckle edged artists water color paper, with a heavy textured surface.  We liked the results given a careful image selection, but we always used paper sizes where the manufactured edge went round all four sides.

Have you tried this borderless/full bleed?

Brian A

[huguito]

I tear the edges over the borders of the image so is no unprinted areas.
I did the tearing after printing and coating, and then dry mounting on a mat board.
The reason for my question is that the ripped edges are now not protected by coating.
I wander if the paper should be coated after the tearing so the coating also protects the torn edges and the edge doesn't yellow or curl over time

[Paul2660]

Your paper is a matte paper, Epson Cold press I believe is 100% cotton and should not yellow over time.  You can also add protection with the glazing you are using, i.e. Tru Vue Conservation Clear or similar product. 

I do a lot of deckle edge work, mainly on Epson Hot press, Optica 1, and Arches.  I have never coated the prints with anything beside print shield, and that's mainly to help prevent rub offs during the mounting.  So far, no problems, 5 years or so out. 

Paul

[huguito]

Thanks Paul
The problem is that I really like the look of the deckled print, dry mounted on a framing matt, but without any glass on the frame.

Hugo

[Paul2660]

You should still be OK as long a a you are using 100% cotton paper as that is no different than watercolor paper like Arches.

Paul

[PeterAit]

Really?

Nobody has an opinion if the edges should be teared or deckled from the paper before or after coating the paper?

I bet it doesn't matter one whit.

[Wendy R]

Hi- I'm new to this site but I'm trying to do just what Hugo said print bleed on deckle edged (Awagami inkjet rice), paper dry mount on a raised surface above Grass cloth with no glass.   But I can't get my Epson 3880 to print covering the the deckle....Paul 2660 said he had no problems for 5 years......any suggestions? Please.
Wendy

[huguito]

Hi Wendy
I think that no printer will be able to print properly on the thorn edge.
You should probably print first and then tear the edge.

What paper are you using?

Hugo

[darlingm]

Hi- I'm new to this site but I'm trying to do just what Hugo said print bleed on deckle edged (Awagami inkjet rice), paper dry mount on a raised surface above Grass cloth with no glass.   But I can't get my Epson 3880 to print covering the the deckle....Paul 2660 said he had no problems for 5 years......any suggestions? Please.
Wendy

huguito is correct.  The issue is the paper we're all using is higher end than just regular paper.  They put some type of inkjet receptive coating layers on top to help the ink stay where it hits rather than bleed, and to give a much better printable color range (gamut) than just raw paper.  Once you tear the edge, the torn area isn't going to have those top layers anymore... So you're seeing just how important those layers they put on are to getting the quality of prints we are used to!

[hugowolf]

Exactly what problem are you having?

1. Printer will not except the paper
2. Prints, but will not allow borderless printing
3. Prints, allows borderless, but doesn't quite print to the edge

Brian A

[hugowolf]

... They put some type of inkjet receptive coating layers on top to help the ink stay where it hits rather than bleed, and to give a much better printable color range (gamut) than just raw paper.  Once you tear the edge, the torn area isn't going to have those top layers anymore... So you're seeing just how important those layers they put on are to getting the quality of prints we are used to!

Awagami inkjet paper doesn't have a torn edge, it has a natural deckle edge from the hand made paper making process. The paper is coated, and that cannot be done before the deckle edge.

It isn't inexpensive uncoated paper. It is about $36 for a single A3 sheet.

Brian A

[Wendy R]

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I'm not tearing paper - I'm using handmade Awagami Inkjet Rice paper - deckle edged on all four sides - at $60/sheet

[Wendy R]

Brian - I'm having a bit of all of those problems....

When the printer accepts the paper (it doesn't always and makes me jump through hoops to get it to feed), it does allow bleed/borderless but even using the max expansion for bleed, it will only print one edge at the most will at full bleed (usually the leading edge) leaving the rest either all white or a pale faint version of the edge of the print....It is being a real pain....any suggestions?

[Damir]

Can you glue the paper on bigger regular but thin paper - with non permanent glue?

It may solve your problem.

[hugowolf]

Brian - I'm having a bit of all of those problems....

When the printer accepts the paper (it doesn't always and makes me jump through hoops to get it to feed), it does allow bleed/borderless but even using the max expansion for bleed, it will only print one edge at the most will at full bleed (usually the leading edge) leaving the rest either all white or a pale faint version of the edge of the print....It is being a real pain....any suggestions?

I have a box of Hahnemühle Museum Etching with fake deckled edges. I have yet to try it in the 3880, but I am not looking forward to the numerous refeedings it will probably take with each sheet. I don't see any way around that: it is expecting perfectly square corners and straight edges.

The first thing I would try would be turning off Check Paper Size (on the printer console > Menu > Printer Setup > Check Paper Size).

If that doesn't work with auto expansion set to max, you could try lying to it about the paper size, giving it a sheet size that (including the minimum 3 mm borders) is slightly larger than the paper size and printing non-borderless. (And if you plan to do this often, I would use a soft cloth and Windex to wipe off the overspray from the pad area.)

You might want to consider tearing some cheaper paper to the size of the handmade paper. while you are trying things out.

And, while I don't think you should give up hope, I haven't seen a print on the Awagami site, or in any of their videos, that doesn't have a border.

Brian A