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Author Topic: Can Lightroom use an external database?  (Read 3634 times)

dreed

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Can Lightroom use an external database?
« on: May 01, 2014, 06:16:24 am »

I was attempting to use a common photo datastore with multiple computers and Lightroom when I ran across the "library not on a network volume" that is discussed here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=15013.20

Which prompts me to ask the question that if it is felt that SQLlite is not an appropriate database to be used on a shared medium then can I use an external (i.e. remote) database instead?

When I say "external database", I mean put the Lightroom database into MSSQL or MySQL or Postgres on another computer and have LR talk to it via TCP/IP. This will take care of all the coherency and simultaneous access issues that a flat file on a shared network drive might bring.

A setup like that should offer much better protection against database corruption (if that is indeed a concern) since you've got a proper database doing transactions, commits, rollback, etc.

Will it be slower? Yes but that is a tradeoff that I'm willing to make.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 06:46:12 am »

No, you can't do that. In Lr's early days I hoped (as someone who used to implement big SQLServer and Oracle apps) that Adobe would eventually address the multi-user market by offering alternative back ends with record locking, user permissions etc. But I don't think they have ever seen themselves as a company selling database-powered enterprise apps, and nowadays their heads are in the clouds, so to speak.

You can do stuff if you pour in a lot of coding effort. For instance, a LR plugin can listen and respond to http calls (in the format lightroom://mypluginid/?commands=...) and I've a proof-of-concept application which stores data in mySQL and sends it to LR using that mechanism. Or you can certainly read and write to SQLite via an ODBC driver. But I really don't think it's generally worthwhile.

As for database corruption, you can find stories, of course, but relative to the user base it's well below what I ever expected. Within the application you do have an ability to roll back individual images even after a restart, thought you're up the creek if you want to roll multiple images back two history steps after a restart. So long as your are in the same LR session there's a level of undo that's pretty good compared to other desktop database-powered apps.

So, the short answer is no.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 06:59:05 am by john beardsworth »
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dreed

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 07:58:02 am »

I'm not even concerned about multi-user.

What I want to do is have a single repository of images and a database to match and then use whichever device happens to be handy to access it.

In my "office", it might be my desktop.

Out in the living room, it might be my laptop.

Why not just export images? Because the keywords provide a very easy way to explore my images when I'm with family and friends.

Why do I need two separate databases? (one for each device)

In the short term, I think I'll try using an iSCSI LUN as the place where my Lightroom folder goes and connect to that with multiple devices. The file locking at the Lightroom level would be sufficient for my needs.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 08:07:05 am »

You asked about a separate back end database and the scenario is the same as a multi user environment.

Anyway, your pictures can be centralised on a network, but your catalogue can't. You can stick it on Dropbox or similar, but you must make sure you remember to close it on machine A and give it time to sync up from A and then down to machine B before you open the catalogue on B. If you don't, Dropbox will create a "conflicted copy", a copy of the catalogue which it was still uploading from A, and you'll be wondering why you can't see adjustments you did on the other machine.
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hjulenissen

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 08:23:15 am »

This post of mine seems to cover what you want:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77849.0
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dreed

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 09:11:44 am »

This post of mine seems to cover what you want:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=77849.0

I might go this path because what I had not counted on was the previews being located in the directory with the lrcat file and I'd like to be able to have previews local ... although ...
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jjj

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 03:39:24 pm »

Anyway, your pictures can be centralised on a network, but your catalogue can't. You can stick it on Dropbox or similar, but you must make sure you remember to close it on machine A and give it time to sync up from A and then down to machine B before you open the catalogue on B. If you don't, Dropbox will create a "conflicted copy", a copy of the catalogue which it was still uploading from A, and you'll be wondering why you can't see adjustments you did on the other machine.
If you enable 'save to to xmp' in catalogue settings then you will be able to see keywording/develop adjustments made in LR from other places or indeed in Bridge. I do this anyway in case of catalogue corruption and thus losing any work since the last backup. Only happened to me once, but that was one time too many. But be aware, for some stupid reason virtual copies are not saved in xmp, so make snapshots of them as they are saved. Both should be.
John, did you do a tweak that made snapshots of VCs or was that someone else?
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jjj

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 03:43:02 pm »

No, you can't do that. In Lr's early days I hoped (as someone who used to implement big SQLServer and Oracle apps) that Adobe would eventually address the multi-user market by offering alternative back ends with record locking, user permissions etc. But I don't think they have ever seen themselves as a company selling database-powered enterprise apps, and nowadays their heads are in the clouds, so to speak.
I seem to recall be able to do that sort of thing in Dreamweaver 10 years ago so multiple people could work on a website. Yet all this time later LR still can't do that. Doesn't affect me as I do my own PPing, but for studios it would be a godsend I imagine.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 04:06:17 pm »

John, did you do a tweak that made snapshots of VCs or was that someone else?

Not me, it was Matt Dawson in his "Snapshotter" plugin.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 04:32:28 pm »

I seem to recall be able to do that sort of thing in Dreamweaver 10 years ago so multiple people could work on a website. Yet all this time later LR still can't do that. Doesn't affect me as I do my own PPing, but for studios it would be a godsend I imagine.
Yes, it's still there, though Dreamweaver isn't database-driven and just dumps xml files into the folder containing assets which you have "checked out". Closer to Lightroom is Extensis Portfolio which had a single user version with an embedded database engine like Lightroom, but also a more-expensive multi-user version which used SQL Server or Oracle backends. OK for corporate users, but costly and demanding in house database admin skills.
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jjj

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 07:27:46 pm »

Not me, it was Matt Dawson in his "Snapshotter" plugin.
Ta.
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dreed

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 09:31:38 pm »

I think I am slowly warming to the iSCSI approach for a very good reason:

I only have one previews directory.

Another approach that I would have liked is a "Lightroom Viewer" that opens the database in read-only mode (or works in a read-only mode) and allows me to browse my photos using keywords or directory structure.
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hjulenissen

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Re: Can Lightroom use an external database?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2014, 03:34:21 am »

Another approach that I would have liked is a "Lightroom Viewer" that opens the database in read-only mode (or works in a read-only mode) and allows me to browse my photos using keywords or directory structure.
I have asked for this as well.

It seems that what Adobe will offer is (the currently iPad-only) Lightroom Mobile. It might work for this scenario, at least if you have got a decent internet connection (I believe that the quasi-developed files needs to be on an Adobe cloud service). I am guessing that porting this application to PC/mac/... is a small task once Adobe has figured out if their customers wants this kind of functionality.

-h
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