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Author Topic: Aperture or Lightroom ??  (Read 64591 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »

Can you change the color space (profile) for an image in either Aperture or Lightroom?
Yes. But there's a difference in the underlying color space used for processing. In Aperture it's Adobe RGB (1998) primaries based on the tests I've done (Apple doesn't say), in LR it's ProPhoto RGB primaries and thus gamut.
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Andrew Rodney
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jjj

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2014, 08:55:53 PM »

Then you must really dislike working in Photoshop.  ;D
Not at all as PS has updated itself just fine over the years and I have a nice tidy workspace as a result.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 09:01:40 PM by jjj »
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jjj

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2014, 09:01:05 PM »

Ah, I see. You’re just here to troll then.
I'm sorry if pointing out that Aperture is a bit lame due to various reasons upsets you.
If Apple had continued on the path it started with Aperture, it could be quite a good programme by now. Sadly it's become more like iPhoto and not a tool for professionals.

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digitaldog

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2014, 09:15:02 PM »

Sadly it's become more like iPhoto and not a tool for professionals.
You were doing really well, then had to add that, which is nonsensical. And throws gas onto a fire which further supports the troll statement below.
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Andrew Rodney
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jjj

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2014, 09:20:41 PM »

That's how Aperture appears to be to me. And very likely the reason it has a very poor take up with pro photographers.
A shame in my view as Aperture was the programme that first tipped me towards buying a Mac, as if it did what it initially promised then I would have bought a Mac just for that single piece of software. Sadly it never lived up to it's promise.   :(
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digitaldog

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2014, 09:34:57 PM »

That's how Aperture appears to be to me.
And that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion. I don't totally disagree. But to say it's not a tool for professionals doesn't wash. There are professional's who do use it. And do any of us really know the 'take up' with pro photographers? The term 'pro photographer' is a very broad group for one, and I doubt either of us know within that broad group who's purchased and used LR or Aperture.

Do professionals make books from their images? Because IMHO, the module in LR is lame compared to Aperture. However I would never state that LR isn't a tool for professionals, such broad statements don't deserve serious consideration.
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ButchM

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2014, 09:37:12 PM »

Not at all as PS has updated itself just fine over the years and I have a nice tidy workspace as a result.

Awww c'mon the Ps UI has changed very little in over two decades ... sure you can define a workspace ... but the visual UI has not ...
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ButchM

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2014, 09:47:05 PM »

And that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion. I don't totally disagree. But to say it's not a tool for professionals doesn't wash. There are professional's who do use it. And do any of us really know the 'take up' with pro photographers? The term 'pro photographer' is a very broad group for one, and I doubt either of us know within that broad group who's purchased and used LR or Aperture.

Do professionals make books from their images? Because IMHO, the module in LR is lame compared to Aperture. However I would never state that LR isn't a tool for professionals, such broad statements don't deserve serious consideration.

I agree ... there have been polls in the past that indicate that Lr has seen a much higher adoption rate than Aperture ... even on the Mac OS X platform ... but what percentage of Aperture users actually participated in those polls? We have no way of knowing.

What I do know, even at a low price tag of $80, Aperture is almost always in the top 20 overall of paid apps in the Mac App Store ... and is almost always the top paid app in the Photography category. And while not perfect, it carries a consistent four star rating.

While I agree that Aperture is not all it could be ... or should be at this point in time ... it isn't a total waste either.
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Bruce MacNeil

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2014, 04:44:39 PM »

I know an awful lot of professional photographers - and am in that club - most of the highest regarded professionals in my circle use Aperture.

Aperture is the best tool for managing files, delivery of finished images and more or less everything.

LR is the most popular among wedding photographers and amateurs.

Capture 1 is very popular among commercial photographers.
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trichardlin

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2014, 03:04:47 AM »

Awww c'mon the Ps UI has changed very little in over two decades ... sure you can define a workspace ... but the visual UI has not ...

A good UI is designed to last a long time. 

As a recent 'switcher' I still dread every time I start LR.  For me, the ideal program would be Aperture's UI with LR's image processing engine.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2014, 03:08:18 AM »

I know an awful lot of professional photographers - and am in that club - most of the highest regarded professionals in my circle use Aperture.

Aperture is the best tool for managing files, delivery of finished images and more or less everything.

LR is the most popular among wedding photographers and amateurs.

Capture 1 is very popular among commercial photographers.

Well, you're probably right about C1's popularity among commercial photographers.
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ButchM

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2014, 10:08:25 AM »

A good UI is designed to last a long time. 

As a recent 'switcher' I still dread every time I start LR.  For me, the ideal program would be Aperture's UI with LR's image processing engine.

I don't have an issue with the Ps UI ... just pointing out to jjj the UI for many popular apps ... is what it is ...

I too, would appreciate more user adjustable options over the interface ... but I can work with what is there now.

I really do like the nearly unlimited user defined custom keyboard commands ... other developers should offer this more.
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Hywel

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2014, 12:17:49 PM »

It's good that we have choices, I guess. Try each and use the one which feels most natural to you.

For me, that's Aperture. LR feels like banging my head on a brick wall every time I do battle with the UI. Modal program operation is something I remember being told was a bad thing back when I was a computer programmer- 25 years ago. I really dislike the way that keyboard shortcuts change meaning from module to module.

It's just my opinion, but I'm the one who has to spend several days a week in this application, so I need the UI to work with me.

Some will say LR encourages a methodical workflow. Personally, I think keyboard shortcuts that change from mode to mode is bad UI design.
If I spot a dust spot that needs fixing, I want to press 'x' and do it right now. Whether I am about to print the picture or organising my metadata. I don't want the program to tell me I can't do it until I press some other button first.

Aperture also has the best retouching tools for my particular purpose: skin smoothing and clone/repair.

Aperture has shortcomings: its image processing engine has a fairly quirky interpretation of Hasselblad RAW files, which isn't ideal. I gather LR has the Hasselblad colour profiles from Phocus built-in. So I end up doing an insane procedure of one-light grade colour pass in Phocus, export to TiFF, fine tune and retouch in Aperture. Which someone is bound to point out is also modal in its way since I'm using two different programs, to which I'll agree. On Canon and Panasonic files, Aperture does just great. And sometimes the Aperture colour correction is a nicer starting point than the Phocus, so I always import both into Aperture and start from whichever I like best.

I'm also tired of the fact that C1 doesn't support arch-enemy Hasselblad's files, or Hasselblad won't licence to arch-enemy C1, or whatever. I don't care- be grown-ups and support each other's cameras! :)

But the main thing is that the UI of Aperture (and most other Apple interfaces eg FCP-X) was designed by someone who thinks like I do and works like I do.

The LR interface was designed by someone who clearly thinks very differently from me, and I plain don't get on with it. Same is true of most Adobe products. To my eyes Adobe interfaces are often scattered with microscopic hieroglyphic buttons of indecipherable function, some of which can conceal flyout triangles about 0.5mm wide on my 30" screen (hard to hit reliably with a graphics tablet pen) which in turn reveal a whole row of additional indecipherable functions.

And you can't just use a keyboard shortcut, because that shortcut probably doesn't work in the mode you're currently in and will end up doing something completely different that you didn't want to do because the program thinks trying to do what you want to do right now is CRAZY TALK.

I agree with previous posters- my hope for Aperture 4 would be LR's processing engine (with manufacturers profiles integrated) with Aperture's interface. About the only functionality missing for me is vector-style gradients and smart fill for local adjustments- doing it by hand with a paintbrush is fine for a lot of things but impossible to do smooth transitions.

Cheers, Hywel


« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 12:21:10 PM by Hywel »
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john beardsworth

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2014, 01:19:20 PM »

Some will say LR encourages a methodical workflow. Personally, I think keyboard shortcuts that change from mode to mode is bad UI design.
If I spot a dust spot that needs fixing, I want to press 'x' and do it right now. Whether I am about to print the picture or organising my metadata. I don't want the program to tell me I can't do it until I press some other button first.

Oh, in Lightroom "If I spot a dust spot that needs fixing, I want to press 'q' and do it right now."

As you grow used to Lightroom, different keyboard shortcuts in different contexts are an advantage. When you're trying to focus on adjustments, you don't need to have half the alphabet tied up to other tasks. Yes, it does encourage a methodical workflow.
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trichardlin

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2014, 03:13:53 PM »


... I really dislike the way that keyboard shortcuts change meaning from module to module...


Ditto.  If one insists on a modular design, browsing and adjusting, sorry, Library and Development should be one module.  I hate picking a photo to work on, then have to switch out to pick another photo to work on. 

Whining aside, I do need you guys LR guru to help me figure this one out.  Say I'm looking at a photo in the  'loupe' view.  I decide it's bad and hit 'delete' key to delete it from the library.  LR would give me a blank screen.  If I then hit left or right arrow key, thinking I can go to the adjacent photo, LR would throw me all the way back to the beginning or the end of the pile, forcing me to go back to the grid view and scroll up and down to get back to where I was.  This is driving me crazy.  Am I missing something here?

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ButchM

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2014, 03:46:13 PM »

Oh, in Lightroom "If I spot a dust spot that needs fixing, I want to press 'q' and do it right now."

As you grow used to Lightroom, different keyboard shortcuts in different contexts are an advantage. When you're trying to focus on adjustments, you don't need to have half the alphabet tied up to other tasks. Yes, it does encourage a methodical workflow.

Except when you run into extreme inconsistencies like the keyboard shortcut for the crop tool in Ps is "C" ... while in the Lr Develop module it is "R" ... If you type a "C" in Lr while in the Develop module, it takes you back to the Library module and invokes the Compare mode.

in my estimation, that really isn't advantageous from an intuitive usability standpoint. Users shouldn't have to remember multiple keyboard shortcuts for the same basic function in different offerings from the same software developer.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2014, 05:08:34 PM »

I might agree about the shortcut's inconsistency between PS and LR for cropping, but is there another? Gradient? After that, hard to think of any where the feature is so comparable. As for C meaning different things in different contexts in LR, there's a benefit to that too - and I'm not sure Aperture even offers an equivalent to Compare. So again one's back to apples and oranges.
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kikashi

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2014, 06:30:09 PM »

Ditto.  If one insists on a modular design, browsing and adjusting, sorry, Library and Development should be one module.  I hate picking a photo to work on, then have to switch out to pick another photo to work on. 

A second monitor, locked into grid view, is a real asset. Not perfect, but a big plus.

Jeremy
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Hywel

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2014, 06:39:49 PM »

As you grow used to Lightroom, different keyboard shortcuts in different contexts are an advantage. When you're trying to focus on adjustments, you don't need to have half the alphabet tied up to other tasks. Yes, it does encourage a methodical workflow.

Actually, John, I really won't grow to regard different keyboard shortcuts as an advantage. I grew pretty used to LR, admitted several versions ago, when I used it for close to a year for all my production- circa 25,000 published and sold photos.

I have no problem with YOU preferring its workflow. As I said, it is good that we have choices. Because I plain hated LR's UI design. Aperture was like being let out of prison, for me.

Cheers, Hywel

P.S. I'm glad to be corrected on there being a single keyboard shortcut for dust spot removal which works in every module and every mode. The fact is I cannot now remember exactly which keyboard shortcuts were universal, and which were modal. Which summarises my problem with LR's UI in a nutshell.

I also have no problem with half the alphabet being allocated to tasks I don't need shortcuts for. In Aperture, I just reassign them. So I have a universal shortcut for Apply Adjustment-> Quick Brush-> Blur (L) and Skin Smoothing (B - which makes sense for MY workflow methodology*) and Dodge (D) and Burn (N) ... the sort of things I personally need to do to thousands of pictures a month and which Aperture allows me to do in the workflow that works for me.

* I almost always do crop-zoom-retouch-vignette-skin smooth... all of which are together on the keyboard: zxcvb, plus space to pan-and-scan and the left and right buttons on the graphics tablet. One hand on keyboard, one hand holding the graphics tablet pen works just fine and dandy for me and speeds me up by a several precious seconds on every shot, triming several days a year from my working life when added up over all the shots I process.

Can you reassign the universal shortcuts in LR now? I don't believe one used to be able to.

But as I said, I'm happy that LR works for you.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 07:27:35 PM by Hywel »
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trichardlin

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Re: Aperture or Lightroom ??
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2014, 08:42:52 PM »


...different keyboard shortcuts in different contexts are an advantage...


I agree.  It helps prevent Alzheimer's Disease.  Car companies should learn from that.  When you are in first gear, stepping on the gas pedal makes it accelerate.  When you are in reverse gear, stepping on the gas pedal [feel free to fill in the blanks].

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