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DeanChriss

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Canon 1DX Question
« on: April 29, 2014, 08:52:42 pm »

I was about to purchase a Canon 1DX when I found this.

I subsequently found many complaining of oil spatters after the fix, and a number of people who have cameras with serial numbers not in the problem range complaining of exactly the same issue, including a serious build up of black spots in the viewfinder that are apparently not covered under warranty. Just Google "1DX black spots" or "1DX defect" (no quotes) and you'll see what I mean.

Of course we all know people only post problems on the Internet, and it's possible that 99% of all 1DX users do not have these issues. What I'd like to know is whether anyone here has a 1DX with a bit of use on it (say 50K or more clicks) and has not experienced any of these issues. I've been caught in previous Canon defects and would love to avoid it happening again if possible. FWIW, I'm interested in this camera specifically for its 12-14 FPS frame rate, but from what I've read it's unclear whether that sort of use has any influence on these issues.

Thanks in advance for any input. 
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 01:41:08 pm »


http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/04/eos-1d-x-eos-1d-c-cold-weather-autofocus-issues/

http://fstoppers.com/confirmed-canon-eos-1dx-c-cold-weather-af-issue

http://www.photocounter.com.au/2013/canon-warranty-dispute-leads-to-claims-of-fraud/

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1234276/0

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=17619.0

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1153198/0


Just google 1DX Mirror Box and you will find loads more.

Summary:

Apparent flaking of paint in mirror box
Dust in mirror box and sensor (various reasons given)
Lube issues
Mechanical issues
Some extreme cases where the sensor is damaged by the debris

They are pushing FPS speeds up and the 1DX got a new Mirror Box to achieve it. Sadly it seems not every Camera is holding up to normal use at high FPS. It seems in some cases metal particles are being generated and that can't do your lenses any good either given the speed a mirror could project them at

I hope they fix this in the replacement as they needed to overcome the issues the previous 1 series had with AF and this problem is dragging them down abit

I am sure many users have been lucky.

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DeanChriss

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 07:09:58 pm »

... I am sure many users have been lucky.

Thanks, Bernard.

I had already seen some, but not all, of what you posted in the links. I'd gladly take a chance at being lucky if I thought the odds were stacked well in my favor. I suppose I was hoping to get some feeling for how many are "lucky" relative to how many are not, which is probably impossible. Absent any idea of what's actually happening or if it's really corrected in a certain serial number range it's a tough choice. I was through the AF issue years ago with a 1Ds3, and while it was no fun, at least it was actually fixed after a mirror box replacement. AFAIK the 1D3 was never 100% fixed, and the answer to that was the 1D4, which was a decent camera for its intended use. In the current case it's unclear whether a true fix is even known. Perhaps I'll muddle through with what I've got a while longer.
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 01:07:27 pm »

Now Canon have found and confirmed the sub mirror is passing its stop in some cases, it may uncover the true source of the debris and possibly lead to hard fix, as it is a small item to design and replace in production. I would imagine the parts that touch are metal and that could explain many of the side effects if these are grating together to the point of slipping over

I agree it is a long shot to hope anyone knows what is the true state of affairs given it has taken so long to get to this point and they are not really confirming it relates to other issues other than obvious AF failure. They may be hitting the maximum FPS for the mirror size and materials typically used.

Throw in the light leak on the top LCD that also caused a recall of 1DX and 5D3 and the AF point issue (visibility in some light) and they have had a hard time with these Cameras.

Shame you need the FPS etc as the 6D seems free of all these issues as far as I know. Hold on to the old 1D's if they still work for you  ;D

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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 02:46:35 pm »

Hi,

 ::) Reading this post, it looks like I made a mistake buying one EOS 1D X last week which I will get next Wednesday 7th of May and maybe even  a bigger mistake  as I bought it in the USA, a friend will bring it over to Mexico and who knows if Canon Mexicana will honour the Warranty in case of failure like described here.

I am an avid speed shooter too specially for birding ....

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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bcooter

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 04:06:56 pm »

I've owned every 1 series digital canon produced, from the 1d ccd to the current 1dx.

Of the list the only Canon related issues were with the 1ds2 which would corrupt if you reviewed the lcd while the camera was processing images and Canon eventually addressed it, essentially by slowing down the lcd review.

Of the other issues, two shutters which CPS replaced in two days each, at a reasonable costs and I lost a sensor in Hong Kong that they replaced that day.  The sensor issue was my fault and a long story.

Keep in mind our studio has over 400 terabytes of imagery stored, most from Canon cameras, so those three problems are minor for the amount of use and abuse we've put the 1d series cameras through.

My 1dx I bought for stills, but also for the ability to shoot high fps cut frame video.   We've had multiple sessions where we've shot over 9,000 still frames in raw and jpeg and also for video in jpeg mode only and never had a problem, which I'm amazed because the abuse of shooting that many frames with a mechanical shutter and a moving mirror at around 15 fps must be tremendous.

If I do have an issue I'm sure CPS will fix it in days, usually two.

No camera is perfect and it can be frustrating to have the one with the issue, when others say they don't.  I'm sure that the people with issues are frustrated, I'm sure the people without problems think  . . . huh?

Once again out of the 1ds1,2,3, the 1dx, the 1d1,2,3,4 to have so few problems considering the volume and compressed schedules we work under I find more than good.

Canon takes a lot of heat, some people find them non inventive, but no camera system we own always travels the world with us, because no camera system I own is as versatile and robust, but I would suggest anyone that uses a Canon under heavy professional use to join cps.   It's well worth it.

IMO

BC

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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 04:32:18 pm »

I've owned every 1 series digital canon produced, from the 1d ccd to the current 1dx.

Of the list the only Canon related issues were with the 1ds2 which would corrupt if you reviewed the lcd while the camera was processing images and Canon eventually addressed it, essentially by slowing down the lcd review.

Of the other issues, two shutters which CPS replaced in two days each, at a reasonable costs and I lost a sensor in Hong Kong that they replaced that day.  The sensor issue was my fault and a long story.

Keep in mind our studio has over 400 terabytes of imagery stored, most from Canon cameras, so those three problems are minor for the amount of use and abuse we've put the 1d series cameras through.

My 1dx I bought for stills, but also for the ability to shoot high fps cut frame video.   We've had multiple sessions where we've shot over 9,000 still frames in raw and jpeg and also for video in jpeg mode only and never had a problem, which I'm amazed because the abuse of shooting that many frames with a mechanical shutter and a moving mirror at around 15 fps must be tremendous.

If I do have an issue I'm sure CPS will fix it in days, usually two.

No camera is perfect and it can be frustrating to have the one with the issue, when others say they don't.  I'm sure that the people with issues are frustrated, I'm sure the people without problems think  . . . huh?

Once again out of the 1ds1,2,3, the 1dx, the 1d1,2,3,4 to have so few problems considering the volume and compressed schedules we work under I find more than good.

Canon takes a lot of heat, some people find them non inventive, but no camera system we own always travels the world with us, because no camera system I own is as versatile and robust, but I would suggest anyone that uses a Canon under heavy professional use to join cps.   It's well worth it.

IMO

BC



Hi BC,

Thanks, you made my day, and yes having had, and still having the old film cameras EOS 1n, EOS 1V and EOS 1n RS, having used them also in rough conditions survived very well. Now the 1Ds after many years collecting dust resurrected without any problem by just buying 2 new batteries :-)

I think that owning the amount of Canon gear I have, they can not take themselfes the Luxury of not taking me serious should I have a problem.

Thanks again of taking away the fear of what could happen, normally my motto is that " I do not eat the unlaid eggs " but this time making an investment of that size, which are not peanuts, but now I am more relaxed ...
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DeanChriss

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 08:23:27 pm »

Hi,

 ::) Reading this post, it looks like I made a mistake buying one EOS 1D X last week which I will get next Wednesday 7th of May and maybe even  a bigger mistake  as I bought it in the USA, a friend will bring it over to Mexico and who knows if Canon Mexicana will honour the Warranty in case of failure like described here.

I am an avid speed shooter too specially for birding ....

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Sorry. I didn't mean to freak anyone out. I suppose the Mk3 focusing issues I had have made me very hesitant. It's bad enough getting a screwed up camera but worse when you find out through a bunch of screwed up photos. These days I always check the service advisories first, though it's no guarantee. OTOH, even when you find a load of problems posted online it's possible that the vast majority are getting problem free use from the product. As the owner of a 5.25 year old problem free Epson 7900 I know that first hand, but I still keep my fingers crossed. So, enjoy your new camera and most importantly stop looking at service issues the moment you make a purchase!  ;)

Thanks also to BC. It helps to know someone has successfully used extended high frame rates without losing the autofocus or obliterating the viewfinder with black crud.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:25:00 pm by DeanChriss »
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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 10:08:49 pm »

Sorry. I didn't mean to freak anyone out. I suppose the Mk3 focusing issues I had have made me very hesitant. It's bad enough getting a screwed up camera but worse when you find out through a bunch of screwed up photos. These days I always check the service advisories first, though it's no guarantee. OTOH, even when you find a load of problems posted online it's possible that the vast majority are getting problem free use from the product. As the owner of a 5.25 year old problem free Epson 7900 I know that first hand, but I still keep my fingers crossed. So, enjoy your new camera and most importantly stop looking at service issues the moment you make a purchase!  ;)

Thanks also to BC. It helps to know someone has successfully used extended high frame rates without losing the autofocus or obliterating the viewfinder with black crud.

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your concern but  really nothing happened. I am also an owner of the very very Old Epson 7500 and it still works like a charm. The biggest problem is to get the Ink cartridges nowadays :-)
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eronald

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 08:03:32 am »

Just about every camera I've had in the past few years has been back for some work or adjustment.

To the OP: It's a fact of life, get over it. Canon has excellent service in my experience.

Edmund

I've owned every 1 series digital canon produced, from the 1d ccd to the current 1dx.

Of the list the only Canon related issues were with the 1ds2 which would corrupt if you reviewed the lcd while the camera was processing images and Canon eventually addressed it, essentially by slowing down the lcd review.

Of the other issues, two shutters which CPS replaced in two days each, at a reasonable costs and I lost a sensor in Hong Kong that they replaced that day.  The sensor issue was my fault and a long story.

Keep in mind our studio has over 400 terabytes of imagery stored, most from Canon cameras, so those three problems are minor for the amount of use and abuse we've put the 1d series cameras through.

My 1dx I bought for stills, but also for the ability to shoot high fps cut frame video.   We've had multiple sessions where we've shot over 9,000 still frames in raw and jpeg and also for video in jpeg mode only and never had a problem, which I'm amazed because the abuse of shooting that many frames with a mechanical shutter and a moving mirror at around 15 fps must be tremendous.

If I do have an issue I'm sure CPS will fix it in days, usually two.

No camera is perfect and it can be frustrating to have the one with the issue, when others say they don't.  I'm sure that the people with issues are frustrated, I'm sure the people without problems think  . . . huh?

Once again out of the 1ds1,2,3, the 1dx, the 1d1,2,3,4 to have so few problems considering the volume and compressed schedules we work under I find more than good.

Canon takes a lot of heat, some people find them non inventive, but no camera system we own always travels the world with us, because no camera system I own is as versatile and robust, but I would suggest anyone that uses a Canon under heavy professional use to join cps.   It's well worth it.

IMO

BC


« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 08:34:18 am by eronald »
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 08:27:45 am »

Of the current Canon line up (M2, T5, SL1, T5i, 70D, 6D, 7D, 5D3, 1DC and 1DX) the 1DX is the second oldest. The 1D cropped sensor variants got refreshed more frequently than the 1Ds full frames, so it is not clear if the 1DX will follow the more frequent upgrade path, if it does it is now over due for a new model

They could ditch SLR mechanics and go mirrorless if they have the view finder refresh speed up to the standards needed. Alternatively back off on the mirror FPS and expand the mirror up FPS

They never ruled out going back to cropped sensors for future pro high FPS models, which still suit some shooters and would also suit high FPS having a smaller mirror set

In the film days they had a pretty faultless reputation with the 1 series and never really tested any new tech on those models till proven on lesser series cameras. The 1DX had many new exclusive features so was a bold move for Canon at the time, especially when it was launched with no F8 AF support

They could juggle the range again and replace both the 1DX and the 7D (the oldest) with a 1.3 crop pro high FPS model and a new full frame high res low FPS type... Rumors of tri colour pixels coming too next year
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 08:35:53 am by Bernard ODonovan »
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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2014, 11:41:44 am »

Hi,

Last night I thought about this. Many many years ago Canon managed to make the EOS 1n RS able to shoot 10fps and there was no film with an ISO of 204800.

Now if the CMOS chips are so exceptionally sensitiv, why not put a pellicle mirror as used in the EOS 1n RS and the problem is solved. As far as I know the pellicle mirror has 1/3 of the light to the finder and 2/3rds to the film.

So where is the problem and why did Canon not follow this way ?

Just thinking loud with the keys of my Keyboard  ;D
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DeanChriss

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2014, 12:10:22 pm »

Hi,

Last night I thought about this. Many many years ago Canon managed to make the EOS 1n RS able to shoot 10fps and there was no film with an ISO of 204800.

Now if the CMOS chips are so exceptionally sensitiv, why not put a pellicle mirror as used in the EOS 1n RS and the problem is solved. As far as I know the pellicle mirror has 1/3 of the light to the finder and 2/3rds to the film.

So where is the problem and why did Canon not follow this way ?

Just thinking loud with the keys of my Keyboard  ;D

...or an EVF, like the OLED-based "TruFinder" on the Sony A77.
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2014, 02:34:15 pm »

A good article of the first Canon AF EOS with a pellicle mirror body:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_RT

It was then followed up by the 1 series model you mention, detailed in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS-1N

Interesting comment about SLRs being sharper in that first article, so in those days it was not just a question of a darker viewfinder and small loss of light on film. Not so obvious on the modern SONY SLT’s

SONY's approach is clever if we ignore the EVF lag issues. They are not limited to a small sub mirror for their Phase Detection AF and so can use more of the frame area for AF points, the limit being any lens vignetting as those reflected light levels are very weak in that system. Most light goes direct to the sensor. Video AF was the other winner until Canon’s hybrid pixel AF which more than levels the playing field

SLR mechanisms use a smaller letter box of light for AF, which limits AF spread. Pushing that sub mirror wider at faster FPS has caught Canon out with the 1DX a bit like breaking the sound barrier. SONY does not need to get into a flap. Canon will be a winner for those that need the real time speed of light in a view finder as long as the EVF’s have lag

In the SONT SLT the AF sensor losses light that is not reflected. In the SLR Mechanism the light that is let through the letter box behind the main mirror is less than what is reflected into the viewfinder so, in a similar way, SLR Mechanism AF modules have less light strength too. No real winners or losers on AF sensitivity, albeit the SLT’s may be lagging behind the sensitivity of the best DSLR AF.

I am still left wondering why Canon think cold weather causes the AF to fail in the 1DX. It may not be the temperature, it could be cold countries have less light on average and so the exposure time per frame at high FPS is longer and so the mirror has to be driven harder in a smaller time scale when moving. Mirror speed control to stop bounce and reduce black out times dates back to the film days, so that must be a factor in their issue. The clearances will not change that much in the cold and if anything the plastic parts will hold their shape better helping the mechanisms. These users may just be wearing the parts faster and so Canon see more reports from colder countries
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Ellis Vener

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 04:54:26 pm »

So far I've shot nearly 34,000 frames with my EOS-1D X since August 18, 2012 and have had no problems, aside from having the sensor professionally cleaned twice a year. Nothing unusual.
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DeanChriss

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2014, 07:09:11 pm »

Thanks Ellis, and all who responded.

Nearly 100% of my use of this camera is outside, occasionally at below 0° F temperatures. That has never caused a problem in 30-some years using Canon cameras. There is much less information available about the cold temperature AF issue than the mirror box issue. I suppose, as Bernard says, the two issues could have the same cause. That's for Canon to figure out.

The only repairs I've ever had have been the result of factory defects in relatively new cameras, specifically MKII and MKIII series, plus a 1V film camera we won't talk about. CPS always does a great job with a fast turnaround. But at least 95% of my use is on trips that often cost as much or more than the camera, to places where shipping a failed camera to CPS and waiting for its return isn't often realistic. A failure means using a backup for the remainder of the time, or going home if you don't have one. That's not a big disaster unless the failure mode means taking numerous photos that are slightly out of focus before realizing something is wrong. While that or anything else could happen with any camera, the sheer number of complaints about these kinds of failures in the 1DX make me uneasy. It's pretty clear that this model has more than the usual problems and mirror box problems aren't isolated to any serial number range. It's also clear that some have big problems while others have absolutely none at all. I think it's just a roll of the dice, and no amount of analysis will make it anything else.

My wife, who must be talking with Edmund, says "Just buy the thing and send it to CPS if it fails".  :-\
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 07:12:13 pm by DeanChriss »
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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2014, 08:10:33 pm »

Hi,

Now that I have the camera physically in my hands and getting throught the menu, I personally thing that the High speed problem is a bit overrated, OK for those who always shoot at 12 fps it could be a challenging problem, but the camera allows you to set any value of HI Speed between 12 and 2 fps adn even LOW Speed shooting can be set between 11 fps and 1 fps.

So knowing what you are shooting and what speed you need you can adjust the values ...

Just something I was asking myself before having the camera and now knowing it is good.
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KevinA

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 01:00:39 pm »

I've shot thousands of 1DX images, no problem  so far of any kind. It's a fantastic machine. I borrowed a D800 the other day, nothing wrong with the images, but it felt like a big step backwards in use. Awful viewfinder and more post work. That sensor in a 1D X body would be a match made in heaven.
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DeanChriss

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2014, 08:53:50 am »

I ended up getting a 1DX. It seems fine so far though I've had it for only a few days. It's a complex camera that takes some reading of manuals to get everything set up, and some experimentation to see what works best for your situation. Canon's 55 page AF manual for firmware V2 is a must have. The camera has huge flexibility and from what I've seen so far lightning quick and very accurate AF, which was my reason for getting it.

I ordered the camera from B&H, and the 6th digit from the left of the serial number is "0". Mirror box issues I've seen posted by owners have been with 1 through 9. Canon says the service advisory affects 1 - 7, but they're apparently honoring the advisory for 8 and 9 also. Apparently it has been long enough that the serial numbers have rolled around as there's a 1 in the 5th digit, and no marks ("A" in battery compartment or black mark on battery latch). Still, I'll be vigilant, have a ready backup, and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks to all.
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Rainer SLP

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Re: Canon 1DX Question
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2014, 10:33:44 am »

Hi Dean,

Congrats for your new purchase. You sill surely enjoy the 1D X as I am doing too. Even my 16 year old Granddaughter was shooting some images from our MOthers Day celebration :-) and for the 1st time I did not her complain about being a heavy camera :-)

I think she will be one day a good photographer :-)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 06:04:23 pm by Rainer SLP »
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