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Author Topic: Suggestion for new monitor  (Read 21747 times)

Chiotas

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Suggestion for new monitor
« on: April 23, 2014, 08:05:39 am »

Hello guys!
I'm going to replace my Apple LED Cinema Display (old one, not thunderbolt) that I use for photo editing.
After some research, I narrowed down the choices to two products:

- LG's 27EA83: http://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-27EA83
- ASUS's PA279Q: https://www.asus.com/Monitors_Projectors/PA279Q/

What do you think about those two monitors?
Do you have any other suggestion? (my budget is around 800/900 €)
Thank you so much!

D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 01:27:06 pm »

My general recommendation if you're on a budget (aren't we all?) is to go down in size and features, rather than compromise on general quality. Some manufacturers cut corners there, to be able to offer maximum features at minimum price. Panel uniformity is usually the first to go.

There are currently only two manufacturers who consistently and reliably deliver top quality: NEC and Eizo.

With that budget you could get an NEC PA242 with SpectraviewII hardware calibration, if you ordered it from B&H in New York (not counting shipping and VAT, though). I'm not saying that's the only option, just a possibility.

Whatever you choose, research calibration options and factor that in. That's crucial. Hardware calibration, adjusting directly to the monitor's high-bit internal LUT, is vastly better than the standard 8-bit calibration to the video card.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 01:35:17 pm by D Fosse »
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Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 01:45:11 pm »

Dear Fosse,
thank you so much for such useful reply.
In my research I honestly didn't consider NEC as an option..my fault!
The only problem is that I think it is not so easy to find available in Italy, or at least in Europe.

Anyway, just two (probably stupid) questions:
- Am I wrong or also the mentioned ASUS and LG have an hardware calibration?
- I have a Spyder4 Elite calibration tool..is it garbage?

Thank you!

Francesco

D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 01:55:56 pm »

From what I can see it seems the LG does. But I can't speak for the quality of LG's software. I think I heard that Asus has it too, but I don't see any mention of it on the site you linked to.

No, the Spyder isn't garbage. It used to be (hence the bad reputation), but the 3 and 4 edition sensors are very good. Just make sure that the sensor is supported in the Asus/LG(?) software.

See if you can stretch the budget a little for an NEC or Eizo. It hurts now, yes, but pays off in the long run...
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 06:14:45 pm »

Just make sure that the sensor is supported in the Asus/LG(?) software.

See if you can stretch the budget a little for an NEC or Eizo. It hurts now, yes, but pays off in the long run...
The monitors must have an addressable LUT, that's not software.  Software comes with the sensor or you can use ArgyllCMS which is freeware to calibrate the monitor.  Agree that if the OP can get a NEC, that's the way to go.  Base colors in a NEC are outstanding.
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digitaldog

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 07:25:18 pm »

In my research I honestly didn't consider NEC as an option..my fault!
You really should. The display is so important in the digital darkroom. I agree that going smaller but better is the best approach if you are on a budget (just ask my wife  :o).
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Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 01:56:56 am »

Dear friends,
thank you so much for your very useful suggestions!!

Fosse, you were right. After a research I found that AUSUS don't have hardware calibration as a feature.

ANyway now I'm seriously considering to buy a NEC! THANK YOU!
The only point is that I'm not able to find a good reseller. Do you have any suggestion for purchasing it in Europe?
NEC website too allows purchases only from US :(

D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 03:49:18 am »

It's true, NEC have made themselves thoroughly aloof and inaccessible in Europe - they can be bought, but you have to look for them. I just complained about this in another thread (and ended up with an Eizo instead).

One option is B&H in New York. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_NEC&ci=6559&N=4042375307+4291324108  They ship around the world and prices are good, but you have to allow for shipping cost, customs and VAT, so it'll probably end up at the same price as locally. However the most excellent Spectraview II calibration software is only available in the US (for some incomprehensible reason), so you'd have to get it there anyway.

The Spectraview software available in Europe isn't nearly as good, and only sold bundled with a special line of Spectraview-branded displays, at a 50% price markup. That's a very expensive solution that I wouldn't recommend, you'd get more value with an Eizo.

So there are complications, which is too bad, because a NEC PA coupled with Spectraview II software is an unbeatable combination in terms of price/performance.

---

As for the size / quality ratio: A while ago I bought an NEC P232 locally (Norway), and the SVII software from B&H. That's a 23 inch standard gamut model, nothing fancy. For that money I could have bought a 27 inch wide gamut Dell U2714H, but there was never a doubt in my mind what I wanted. I've had a Dell U-series in my house before, and the thing was such a piece of cr*p that I just returned it immediately and demanded my money back. Which they wouldn't do, even though there was about 1000K difference in color temperature from one side of the screen to the other. That's what you risk with the cheaper brands.

The little NEC has served me well, until now I finally had the opportunity to get a bigger Eizo (but only because the money was suddenly available).
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 04:16:21 am by D Fosse »
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DavidJ

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 03:55:10 am »

Colour confidence a retailer in the UK carry NEC monitors . Might be worth checking them out.
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David Allen

Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 04:16:55 am »

You are right Fosse!
I found the official retailer in Italy...for the PA272 SV (so the 27" with SpectraViewII) they ask for $ 2.830,00
If I buy the same product on B&H, considering 250& of shipping and 300$ of taxes, it will cost around $1,800,00
THIS IS MADNESS.
Now I'll chek the link provided by David (thank you!)..if the price range is similar to Italy, I'll open a B&H account :D

EDIT: In Italy I'm able to find at the same price an Eizo CX 270 (probably due to the 500 $ of shipping and taxes). Do you believe that I shoud move to this one?  Ok, now I'm extremely confused ;)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 08:24:39 am by Chiotas »
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Czornyj

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 06:06:15 am »

Welcome to the crazy world of NEC Display Solutions ;)

In US you can buy NEC PA272W and a calibration kit which includes a NEC Spectrasensor, and NEC Spectraview II software. There's no NEC Spectraview Reference 272 version, which is european "invention".

In EU you can buy NEC PA272W, NEC Spectraview 272 and NEC Spectraview Reference 272  ;D Spectraview has internal license that allows hardware calibration with european NEC Spectraview Profiler software, Spectraview Reference has the same license, a hood, additional certificate of awesomeness, and better warranty.

My advise is to get PA272W (http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php/5013/nec-pa272w-black-led-monitor) and use NEC Multiprofiler software to calibrate it without external sensor.
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D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 07:26:54 am »

Multiprofiler should work well, I never really got into it. But the most important part, measuring the primaries, is already done at the factory and written to a chip in the monitor, which Multiprofiler reads. So that gets you a long way.

Anyway, with all the European NEC idiosyncrasies, Eizo is certainly a more hassle-free option. And between SV <> SV Reference not much more expensive. But if you can get the SV II software from US, and a display from, well, anywhere, the combo is great.

Now if you'll all excuse me, my CG246 just arrived (that was fast) and is still sitting in its box. Now I'm dying to find out if it's any good  ;D  (and how ColorNavigator works compared to SV II).
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Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 07:28:37 am »

Thank you so much Czornyj!
I finally understood why I wasn't able to find the US model in EU! (thank you NEC... :-\)

Anyway, it is quite clear that the price of a NEC PA272 + SpectraViewII in Europe is quite hight compared to US, and so now I found that the Eizo CX270 is cheaper than NEC PA272 + SpectraViewII!

Is NEC PA272 really a better choice that an Eizo CX270?

Sorry foir this messy post guys, but thank you so much because without you I would have already spent a lot of money for a mediocre product.

Enjoy your CG246 Fosse!! :D

THANK YOU!

Czornyj

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 08:02:22 am »

Actually, you can't buy Spectraview II in EU - it's only available in US ;) Question is if you really need calibration solution - Multiprofiler works very well with PA-series display.

CX270 is an old WG CCFL backlight technology with heavy matt diffuser, so I strongly recommend PA272W which features GBr LED backlight with 2D brightness control (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=83820.msg699341#msg699341) and satin diffuser. The equivalent of NEC PA272W is EIZO CX271/CG277.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 08:06:17 am by Czornyj »
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Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 08:35:21 am »

Thanks for the CX advice!
Ok, so I bleieve that the best solution is tu buy directly from US and importing the NEC in US version:

http://www.amazon.com/PA272W-BK-SV-2560-1440-1000-SpectraViewII/dp/B00FLTTLQ4/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17MC6HOH9AVE6

The price is more convenient than the EU version even if I add taxes and custom duties :D

D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 10:59:36 am »

Ok, so I bleieve that the best solution is tu buy directly from US and importing the NEC in US version

That is the simplest way, yes. The unit will probably be on Italian soil within a day or two, and then probably a couple of days through customs. After delivery you'll get an invoice for customs and VAT, no fuss.

Anyway, the Eizo is up and running. This display means business, that's for sure. So far I can't find anything that is less than absolute perfection. ColorNavigator is intuitive, fast and with all the options I could need. Not sure I can ever bring myself to trust that little...thingie...that pops up from the bezel with a little whirring sound, though, but I still have my i1 Display 3 sensor and have been using that for now.

Is it worth the price? As things stand, absolutely. But if PA242 was available here, with the SV II software, and at a price level corresponding with the US price level, I might reconsider.
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digitaldog

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 11:05:24 am »

Welcome to the crazy world of NEC Display Solutions ;)
Indeed and it's such a mess we the community need to find a way to get the big, big shots at NEC to look at this and fix it. I know for a fact the US folks at NEC are equally frustrated by these limitations. This is a company that makes some great products but apparently hasn't a clue how to get the product to their audience. For example, years ago, you could not even buy an electronic download of SpectraView in the US. You had to buy then wait on a physical CD. Then they ran out and people were waiting awhile for stinkin software as NEC pressed CDs. This wasn't that long ago, not in the 90's when downloading software was a novel idea. WTF were they thinking? Fortunately we can now purchase and download the software. Why not in Europe? Insanity. They could up their sales.
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D Fosse

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 02:38:19 pm »

Well, you can't say they're not up to date now  ;D
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Chiotas

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 02:47:12 pm »

Dear friends, last crazy question before ordering my NEC PA272W :D

Do you thin that is possible to use together a NEC PA272W European version (NEITHER SpectraView NOR Spectraview Reference...the "standard one") and the purchasing the US kit for SpectraviewII to use with it?
I read some conflicting opinions on the net..and I would not be so surprised if not possible as NEC consider EU and US two different planets..
I'm wondering that because I found that the warranty for US version in valid ONLY in North America ( :-X ) so I believe that is not so convenient to purchase the monitor outside Europe..

I really hope that this NEC is epic as you say guys, it is making me really suffer :D

Thanks again!

Francesco

Czornyj

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Re: Suggestion for new monitor
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 02:51:45 pm »

Do you thin that is possible to use together a NEC PA272W European version (NEITHER SpectraView NOR Spectraview Reference...the "standard one") and the purchasing the US kit for SpectraviewII to use with it?

Sure, that what many european NEC users do - as you can see in the above example of D Fosse BTW.
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