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Author Topic: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?  (Read 8325 times)

disneytoy

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Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« on: April 17, 2014, 12:44:02 pm »

Hi!

I've started on a large canvas project. I started with a small roll (17"x40) of Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte NATURAL.

I just got in a 44" roll of Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte WHITE

My images have very saturated colors, I love reds. I understand the limitations of canvas. I have been happy with the colors I've gotten on Red River Aurora White cotton fiber paper. So I'm not expecting the color gamut I'd get with a Premium Gloss.

I print out of Lightroom. I like how I can make Virtual copies, do a test print and go back and fine tune without altering the original.

So,I don't have anything to produce a custom ICC profile .. At home I have an Epson r1900 and d2400 to test with. The large 44" roll will eventually get printed on a Canon iPF8400.

So, other than just trial and error, anyone share any tips on getting the best saturation, color gamut when I print on canvas?

Thanks

Max
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Scott Martin

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 12:59:54 pm »

My images have very saturated colors, I love reds. I understand the limitations of canvas.

Well it's all about the profile and usually the perceptual intent and how the perceptual intent is specified when the profile is made. If you're making your own profiles then you can tweak this yourself. If you're relying on other's profiles, there can be quite a difference so choose wisely!

I print out of Lightroom. I like how I can make Virtual copies, do a test print and go back and fine tune without altering the original.

FYI, you can also use snapshots in they Develop module. I personally find this much more organized than having a bunch of VCs.

So, other than just trial and error, anyone share any tips on getting the best saturation, color gamut when I print on canvas?

I'd recommend i1Profiler profiles with the perceptual rendering saturation set in the 45-50 range. IMO, you can't beat the results with any other software.
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shadowblade

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 01:14:57 pm »

You need to spray it with a varnish.

On canvas, this makes a dramatic difference.
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disneytoy

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 05:11:49 pm »

Thanks Scott. By the way I looked at you photography. You have some great photos!

I don't have a i1Profiler, Its a bit out of my budget. Is this something I could print a test (calibration) print on my canvas and printer, and send it to someone who has the Xrite sensor? Or is it a closed loop system?

I'd like to try what you said "perceptual rendering saturation set in the 45-50 range"

Thanks

Max
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digitaldog

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 10:43:46 pm »

So,I don't have anything to produce a custom ICC profile ..
But you have some ICC profile from the paper manufacture? How is it and did you use some good reference images to test it?
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Scott Martin

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 11:45:55 pm »

Thanks Scott. By the way I looked at you photography. You have some great photos!

Hey, thanks for saying so! Means a lot.

I don't have a i1Profiler, Its a bit out of my budget. Is this something I could print a test (calibration) print on my canvas and printer, and send it to someone who has the Xrite sensor? Or is it a closed loop system?

Anyone with i1Profiler could do this for you...
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PeterAit

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 12:11:08 pm »

I have not used the Epson canvas, and AFAIK it's quite good. But, you might want to try Breathing Color Lyve, which by my experience and the reports of others has exceptional gamut and Dmax for a canvas. Bloody expensive, though.
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shadowblade

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 01:08:16 pm »

I have not used the Epson canvas, and AFAIK it's quite good. But, you might want to try Breathing Color Lyve, which by my experience and the reports of others has exceptional gamut and Dmax for a canvas. Bloody expensive, though.

Have you seen Breathing Color Silverada?

Looks fantastic. Not sure about its longevity though, even when sprayed.
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Some Guy

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 01:38:22 pm »

Have you seen Breathing Color Silverada?

Looks fantastic. Not sure about its longevity though, even when sprayed.

I bought a roll and must say it is one of my least favorite papers out of maybe 40 or more I've tried.  Never have gotten a decent image off the stuff either.  Okay, it smells awful too once out of the bag!

Ink bleeds leading to sharpness issues which their own tech mentioned in followup.  Never get a dark black either no matter the profile - mine or theirs.  If I crank it up for black or color, the ink bleeds out into adjacent lighter colors even more.  Very hard surface, and looks more like a buff-colored irregularly varnished canvas.  It is thick and can roll up from the sides (oddly?) which leads to bad head strikes, so bad the printer head will knock it sideways and maybe a 5 degree angled shift in the image as it prints too.

I was so disappointed with the blacks I hit it with Krylon UV Varnish.  Didn't help much at all and maybe even dulled it a bit.  Don't know what they mean by a metallic look either.  More like a light cream/yellowish opalescent on heavy stock.  Spraying fills in the shallow irregular filled weave too and makes the irregular varnished appearance appear more so.

Wish I had tried the sample of it first before buying the expensive roll, but they were out of samples then too so I bought the roll.  Used maybe a third trying to get a decent profile, but bad head strikes and ink runs made me give up on it.

Compared to what I get out of the Premier Art Canvas, which looks more like a heavy bright-white canvas that an artist would use (much thicker weave than most, and more suited to the larger print sizes), it was a bad mistake.  The Premier canvas takes their spray a lot better too and punches up the coarser weave appearance as well.  Might be my favorite canvas so far and was easy to profile even though it may have OBS's in it (Brightness of 102 I think (?) which makes prints in dark areas appear to be illuminated.).

SG
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Scott Martin

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 02:49:15 pm »

I bought a roll and must say it is one of my least favorite papers out of maybe 40 or more I've tried.  Never have gotten a decent image off the stuff either.  Never get a dark black either no matter the profile - mine or theirs.  If I crank it up for black or color, the ink bleeds out into adjacent lighter colors even more.  

Something is wrong then. Are you sure you didn't get a roll of Silverada SUL - their solvent Silverada? Solvent media would cause lots of bleeding and bad blacks on an aqueous printer...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 02:58:56 pm by Scott Martin »
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shadowblade

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 02:52:36 pm »

Something is wrong then. Are you sure you didn't a tool of Silverada SUL - their solvent Silverada? Solvent media would cause lots of bleeding and bad blacks on an aqueous printer...

That would certainly explain the smell...
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Some Guy

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 03:58:21 pm »

Something is wrong then. Are you sure you didn't get a roll of Silverada SUL - their solvent Silverada? Solvent media would cause lots of bleeding and bad blacks on an aqueous printer...

Checked box.  Nope, not the SUL version.  Don't think the SUL was available then (4-5 months ago) either.

Says "Silverada Aqueous Canvas"  SKU: SLVAC-14961740.  Warning about "Setting the platen to widest" too.

I'd put it near the very bottom of my "Buy again" list for a canvas - if one can call it that over a heavyweight linen-like paper.  As mentioned, their tech picked up on the ink bleed on images I sent in - and it happened to him too.  Regardless, printer head strikes were serious (noisy) issues even though everything was set widest (Platen and paper thickness both.).  Never experienced paper getting moved sideways and bending of images while printing due to the lengthwise curl.  Luckily, the printer still seems to run well.

SG

add:

After thinking this through, I wonder if the current roll of "Silverada Aqueous Canvas" crap I got was destined to be their solvent SUV paper since it smells and bleeds too easily?  Maybe they came out with a better aqueous version since, and the stuff I have is their "New" (or renamed) SUV stuff?

Dunno.  ???

SG
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 04:27:37 pm by Some Guy »
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Scott Martin

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 08:29:08 pm »

After thinking this through, I wonder if the current roll of "Silverada Aqueous Canvas" crap I got was destined to be their solvent SUV paper since it smells and bleeds too easily? 

That's what I meant - maybe you somehow got the wrong one. Sounds like something is wrong - the prints I've seen in BC's tech support setup look great. It's an odd canvas that's not for everyone but your results just don't sound right and it seems like giving it another shot is in order.
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huguito

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 11:55:54 pm »

I tried the silverada, with my own profilebecause they don't have a profile for the 9600, and once I set the ink density down by 20% to avoid some ink pooling on the deep blacks, the results where very nice if you are looking for a lot of "pop" and saturated colors.
Really deep blacks and beautiful contrast.

Hope it helps

Hugo
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shadowblade

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 09:31:55 am »

Silverada is fantastic for black-and-white prints, since you don't have to worry about longevity with pure carbon inks. I'm not sure how well colour inks last on it though, compared to Lyve.

Does anyone know of a metallic/pearlescent paper that's of archival quality (i.e. not RC)? Or is it Silverada with Timeless for now?
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alifatemi

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 11:06:43 am »

I suggest try Hahnemuehle Leonardo canvas, download their own profile, soft proof and after 2 or 3 small hard proof, you are in business. Leonardo is satin-finished but if you like matt canvas, try either Hahnemuehle Monet or their more reliable poloycanvas, Canvas Artist, but you need to be more careful in softproof but generally, you can reach a very saturated color with both. Just with H. Leonardo, you have more punch and contrasty look if your target is commercial. H. profiles are generally good. My advice is to stick to just one kind of canvas/brand for a certain project and learn its pros and cons, its better to wondering around with several brands and wast time. Good luck.
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Some Guy

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 11:41:06 am »

I pulled up the i1 PhotoPro 2 profiles made of the Silverada and Premier Art canvases I use to show the differences.

One image attached is the Silverada.  Second is the Premier Art Satin Canvas which shows a larger gamut even though it is a Satin finish (Very white too. OBC's.).

For whatever reason, the blacks are weak on the Silverada.  If I put more ink density into the paper, the ink runs and bleeds making matters worse.  BC had me dial it back to prevent that bleeding, but at a loss for color too.  No issues with the Premier Art Satin canvas and it is a default 0% on ink density in the Epson driver.

Bigger concern is the head strikes of the Silverada due to the strong edge curl it has too.

Aside, the Premier Satin Canvas seems to be favorable to skin color a bit more on canvas than the Epson canvas profile that I was just looking at too.  It looks much closer to Epson's own canvas profile than the Silverada canvas too.

Looked at my Canson Infinity Photo Art HD Canvas too.  Nice deep blacks, although its canvas is somewhat well covered (Like a heavy gesso'd canvas.), very white, and a flatter surface with less texture than the deeper weave of Premier's canvas.

SG

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Scott Martin

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 12:12:05 pm »

I pulled up the i1 PhotoPro 2 profiles made of the Silverada and Premier Art canvases I use to show the differences.

The shape of that profiles indicates there's clearly something terribly wrong with your setup that's different from what everyone else is seeing on that media. I think it would be smart not bash their product unit you figure out what's horribly wrong there. They may have shipped you the solvent version in the wrong box or something like that but I can tell you Silverada is a good product...
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acktdi

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2014, 06:33:06 pm »

I ordered a trial roll of Silverada when it first came out, I was shipped the SUL version, but it was labeled as such..  It's interesting to hear that I wasn't the only one.
As for for box and media being mislabeled, I'm not sure, but could be possible.

I haven't yet printed on the the Silverada, but I don't remember it being too smelly.

jimabels

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Re: Any tips on printing good saturation/contrast on canvas?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 01:23:04 am »

I had issues with it as well but... It had to do with leaving the canvas roll in the printer over night. The humidity can get to it. It curls inward due to the gloss coatings. The Lyve canvas never did that. About the black levels, are you using photo black or matte black??? Matte black will not absorb into the glossy layer properly. I rolled it up tightly and put it back with the plastic around it and wrapped it tight with packing tape. The. Ext day I pulled it out and no more head strikes. Their tech support knows about this. It has to do with it having a glossy coating. Anyway, give it a try or talk to BC. At first their email replies were going into my spam box so look out for that!
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