Epson Surecolor vs 9900...

[Keithw1975]

We currently have a couple Epson 9900s that we use for event signage at trade shows. Our clients are very picky about spot color matching as well as crisp type edges. Can the Epson Surecolor printers produce output similar to the 9900 or is the quality and color accuracy inferior?

We currently have to apply a laminate to everything, to protect against chemical and physical abrasion, and I am wondering if the Surecolor printers would make sense for us, as they should hold up without coating.

[Scott Martin]

The Surecolor S series is great for canvas printing in particular. With the right media and profiles the color gamut and quality is very similar, and the surface durability without liquid lamination is fantastic. You can scrap it with your fingernails pretty hard with no damaging effects. You can't cheat on the media or the profiles though - these things make a big difference with solvent printers!

[Paul2660]

Most of the large commercial canvas shops, now are using solvent for these reasons, no coating, durable finish.  The are also great for signage, and can print on styrene. 
 
The latest Epson solvents do a very good job, however they increase the cost factor quite a bit, so you have to have quite a bit of printing to run.  They also will not print on standard media, RC, fine art, matte etc and I believe even the canvas has to be a type especially for a solvent printers. 

Paul

[Scott Martin]

The are also great for signage, and can print on styrene. 

Styrene is a board material that the roll-to-roll Surecolor S series can't use. Styrene is often used for mounting or printed directly onto with UV Curable printers.
 

They also will not print on standard media, RC, fine art, matte etc and I believe even the canvas has to be a type especially for a solvent printers. 

You might say they print on standard solvent media and not aqueous media. Good media really matters with solvent and Breathing Color makes the highest quality solvent media I've seen so far. Excellent solvent media can cost about the same as excellent aqueous media. Epson's inks only offer modest cost savings over aqueous inks, so the draw is really the durable surface that doesn't need coating. Other printer brands offer more affordable inks, but not always the best quality or speed. The Surecolor S70's use of white and metallic silver is really cool - Roland does this as well but with an inset with fewer colors.

The other option to consider for high volume, unlaminated canvas is latex!

[Paul2660]

Styrene is a board material that the roll-to-roll Surecolor S series can't use. Styrene is often used for mounting or printed directly onto with UV Curable printers.
 

Scott thanks for the clarification.  I know that some solvents can print to styrene, as there is a shop here is town that uses this for a drop in sign application for a large dept store chain.  Their printer is a 64" at least 5 years old and produces a nice color print on the styrene sheets.  As it's a solvent, print is basically etched to the styrene.  I just assumed the Epson being newer would also do this.

Paul

[Scott Martin]

I know that some solvents can print to styrene, as there is a shop here is town that uses this for a drop in sign application for a large dept store chain. Their printer is a 64" at least 5 years old and produces a nice color print on the styrene sheets.

The only direct-printing option for styrene is UV-curable printing. I'd bet anything those printers are UV curable. I'm not aware of a styrene that's coated with a solvent compatible coating nor a flatbed solvent printer.

The confusion is understandable! There's a lot of misunderstanding about UV Curable, latex and solvent printing in the industry. So many people only have experience with aqueous printers...

[Stefan Ohlsson]

You might say they print on standard solvent media and not aqueous media. Good media really matters with solvent and Breathing Color makes the highest quality solvent media I've seen so far.

Which RIP do you prefer for the SureColor printers? We have a SureColor 70600 and use the Fiery ColorProof 5.

[Ernst Dinkla]

The only direct-printing option for styrene is UV-curable printing. I'd bet anything those printers are UV curable. I'm not aware of a styrene that's coated with a solvent compatible coating nor a flatbed solvent printer.

The confusion is understandable! There's a lot of misunderstanding about UV Curable, latex and solvent printing in the industry. So many people only have experience with aqueous printers...

Polystyrene in the solid quality and derivatives of it like ABS should not be an issue with solvent printers. Ecosolvents could not cope with it (solvent often not more than a butylacetate) but there are certainly other solvent printers that can cope. An ethylacetate or amylacetate cosolvent in the ink is all that is needed to get a bond to styrene. In silkscreen printing the difficult polymers are polyethylene, polypropylene and other olefins. Saturated Polyester (PET) being inert to most solvents is another one that is harder to tackle. For all there are solutions like Corona treatment to create a better bond with for example two component epoxy, urethane and UV curing inks. For digital printing the two component variety is not used of course. While UV-curing digital printing is quite versatile it has also a handicap for printing on plastics that will be thermoformed afterwards, the more when the temperatures needed in thermo-forming are quite high like for polycarbonate. Both bond and flexibility can get lost in that process. Special inks for that purpose have been developed and there is still work done on that, Sun, FujiFilm. UV-curing inks with a cosolvent for bonding is one example. Some years ago the Océ Arizona T220 with its solvent inks and high opaque blacks was the only usable inkjet printer for thermo-formed illuminated signs, a product group I still have some market share in with my silkscreen printing.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Scott Martin]

Which RIP do you prefer for the SureColor printers? We have a SureColor 70600 and use the Fiery ColorProof 5.

For the longest time ONYX was the only RIP that supported the S70 as that's who Epson partnered with during the prerelease testing period. When they came out ONYX was the only option and it took 9+ months for them to both work out a lot of kinks. So the vast majority of my experience on that particular printer is through ONYX, and I'm not sure how well the other RIPs have caught up to this point. The handling with the white and metallic silver inks are tricky and choosing ONYX was smart because it already had so much control over all the variables (print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling, etc). Epson also inserted a bunch of their own intellectual property into ONYX with their "Accuphoto GSX" mode that, when used, makes ONYX behave like a printer driver, using predetermined ink limits and linearization. ONYX's calibration process is more complicated that it should be - I'd take Caldera's color science over ONYX any day.  I'm not a huge fan of ONYX, but it does have a TON of controls, and one needs those controls on the S70. I'm not used to seeing as broad signage compatibilities in other RIPs, nor as full support for as many 3rd party plug-ins. Maybe you can tell us, how does ColorProof5's features compare in these areas (white and metallic silver handling, Accuphoto GSX support, print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling,etc)?

[Stefan Ohlsson]

Maybe you can tell us, how does ColorProof5's features compare in these areas (white and metallic silver handling, Accuphoto GSX support, print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling,etc)?

What I'm missing is the support for Accuphoto GSX. Linearization can be extremely difficult when you have to find the best values for ink limiting. I saw that EFI had a RGB mode for the other versions of this printer (30600 and 50600) in their latest update, so I hope that they will have support for the 70600 in the next version.

[Farmer]

Ergosoft has support for all the SC-S series printers.

[Scott Martin]

What I'm missing is the support for Accuphoto GSX. Linearization can be extremely difficult when you have to find the best values for ink limiting. I saw that EFI had a RGB mode for the other versions of this printer (30600 and 50600) in their latest update, so I hope that they will have support for the 70600 in the next version.

The color science for determining the per channel ink limits, linearization curves, and total ink limiting is often disappointing in these RIPs. I've developed some methodology for determining these things outside of the RIP and then plug them into the RIP and that's the key to optimizing the calibration prior to profiling. This is the subject of a lot of the hands-on training I provide. I'm working on an article that will go into further detail on this...

RGB modes will work with the colors but metallic solver and white will always require CMYK+N channel modes. CMYK and CMYK+ modes work great anyway - not much advantage to RGB really. How does EFI's support look for white and metallic silver handling,  print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling,etc?

Ergosoft has support for all the SC-S series printers.

Yes, but how thorough is it for the S70? How does the support look for white and metallic silver handling,  print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling, Accuphoto GSX mode, etc? Do tell!

[iCanvas]

I print mainly with canvas on a 9900. Can the S70 print with gloss or semigloss finish? You stated that no coating was necessary. What kind of finish will the S70 leave after printing on canvas? I am not sure we can afford a S70, but after waiting 6 years for Epson to upgrade the 9900, we may look into it. Is there clogging with the S70? Thanks for anyone's input. 

Gar

[Scott Martin]

I print mainly with canvas on a 9900. Can the S70 print with gloss or semigloss finish? You stated that no coating was necessary. What kind of finish will the S70 leave after printing on canvas? I am not sure we can afford a S70, but after waiting 6 years for Epson to upgrade the 9900, we may look into it. Is there clogging with the S70? Thanks for anyone's input. 

Strangely, the Surecolor S70 prints in a way that's pretty compatible with both matte and glossy canvases. The inked areas honor the surface it's printed upon. Clogging is similar to the 9900 (I suspect they share the same printhead). And the 9900 isn't too shabby - pinnacle of aqueous technology, except for some possible inkset improvements...

[Farmer]

Yes, but how thorough is it for the S70? How does the support look for white and metallic silver handling,  print color order, media retraction, drying times, alpha channel handling, Accuphoto GSX mode, etc? Do tell!

I would suggest taking a look at a demo version, because I can't speak with authority in a comparison with other RIPs.  I've seen the output from Ergo, and it's great, but I'm not the expert on its use and don't want anyone to be mislead.  I'm just stating that I know it works.