Lightroom 5 and Nik Silver Efex Pro 2 problem

[ambystoma]

I worked on some images in Silver Efex Pro 2.  The file I send from Lightroom to Silver Efex is the "Edit a Copy with Lightroom Adjustments" option.  I then work on the file in Silver Efex until it suits me and save.  The file is then sent back over to the Lightroom 5 develop module where it looks as it did when I was done working with it in Silver Efex.  The problem comes when I then click on the Library module.  The image changes significantly.  And when I export it looks wrong.  But when I click from Library to Develop module it again looks at it did when it originally came back over from Efex Pro 2. 

I have exported the files anyway and looked at them in other viewers and again they show the same issues. 

Another interesting  aspect of this is when I am in the develop module viewing the photo and click on Library the histogram box has the word "calculating" in the middle.  It appears for a few seconds, disappears and the photo then looks completely different.  Yet the histogram does not change in any way.  This is really bizarre.  When it goes from Develop to Library it looses significant contrast and just looks a lot duller.  The differences are substantial enough that they histogram should show a change but it does not.   

I am new to Silver Efex but have used other Nik plugins for a long time.  I went back and reviewed some shots edited in other nik plugins and even did up a few new photos using Viveza and others.  In those cases going from Develop to Library module does not make any difference. 

Nik appears to no longer have forums.  I could find no reference to this issue via google.  Although maybe I worded my search inquiries incorrectly. 

I am hoping someone out there has experienced this and/or knows how to correct this problem.

Jeff

[Steve House]

Try rebuilding the library thumbnail. Back in the Library module after editing in Nik, select the thumbnail for the edited copy and rebuild the preview (Library menu, Previews, Build Standard-Sized Preview).

[ambystoma]

I gave that a try.  It had no impact.  Just to be clear, the issue was not just with the previews but when I actually export as a 100% full size JPEG the file appears as the version in the library module not the develop module. 

[Steve House]

I gave that a try.  It had no impact.  Just to be clear, the issue was not just with the previews but when I actually export as a 100% full size JPEG the file appears as the version in the library module not the develop module.  

Can't seem to duplicate your issue.   I shoot NEF and convert to DNG when importing into LR but it should work the same with other file formats.  I have file xxxx.dng selected in library.  Switch to develop module to open it there.  In the menu select Photo, Edit In, Silver Efx Pro 2.  Export to SFX as a tiff with LR adjustments.  Convert to monochrome in SFX and tweak as desired, then save.  Close SFX.  In LR return to library.  The tif coming back from SFX shows in the grid as a new file with the filename xxxxx-edit.tif, stacked with the original xxxxx.dng.  Expand the stack.  Make sure the xxxxx-edit file is the one selected.  Export to JPG.  Opening the jpg shows it has the SFX adjustments in place.  Where does your workflow differ from mine?

[ambystoma]

Only difference is I am shooting CR2 and not converting to DNG, everything else is exactly the same.    What is really interesting to me is the jpg that appears has some of the adjustments.  The file opens in Silver Efex and is of course BW, when it left lightroom it was color.  That is as it should be.  But when it is exported back to lightroom as a tiff it is also a BW file showing the adjustments in the Develop module.  But if it was not showing any of the adjustments in the JPEG after export would appear as a color file.  It doesn't.  It appears as black and white with substantially less contrast and brightness.  And as I mentioned the histogram remains the same in the develop and library module.

Guess I will have to call Nik support on Monday.  Why do I have the feeling this is some unusual unheard of issue.  It is also frustrating. 

I can't imagine any setting or preference I could have set in Lightroom or Silver Efex that would make a bit of difference.  My lightroom 5 is the latest version. 

[ambystoma]

Could it possibly matter that I am working with 1ds Mark II raw files from 2006?   I have the process version set to the current 2012 version.  This is all so weird.  If it had anything to do with the way Nik plugins interact with my computer and lightroom version you would think this would be an issue with Color Efex and Viveza 2.   I have tried both, and with the same photos and the issue is not present when using those 2 nik plugins.

I also have the latest versions of the plugins installed since January. 

[Mac Mahon]

I too cannot replicate your issue.  OS X 10.9.2, LR 5.3, latest ver SEP2 and CR2.  Post-SEP TIFF in Library Module view is indistinguishable from Develop Module View.  Any differences in exported JPEG are very slight for me.

I would have suspected something in your JPEG export process but for your observation that the image looks different in Library and Develop Modules.  

If the image looks OK in Develop following SEP it doesn't sound like the issue is with SEP.  Sounds like something is screwing up when an image is passed from develop module to library module - have you tried reinstalling LR5?

Tim

[Mark D Segal]

Could it possibly matter that I am working with 1ds Mark II raw files from 2006?   I have the process version set to the current 2012 version.  This is all so weird.  If it had anything to do with the way Nik plugins interact with my computer and lightroom version you would think this would be an issue with Color Efex and Viveza 2.   I have tried both, and with the same photos and the issue is not present when using those 2 nik plugins.

I also have the latest versions of the plugins installed since January. 

I'm not sure the vintage of the CR2 file matters, and Process Versions largely affect how the files are processed. I think it may be worthwhile researching the question of Process Version.  Take several test files and strip them of all previous processing information. Repeat your workflow using PV 2010 instead of 2012 on several of those 2006 files. I'd also explore the issue of previously processed files in PV2010 that you are now using in PV 2012, versus files from which you strip all the processing information so it starts life all over again in PV2012. From both of these approaches you would be able to detect whether the switch of PV on previously processed files is having some kind of unintended effect.

[ambystoma]

It has been almost a month since I started using Silver Efex and the problem has not been resolved.  I have been sending files and screenshots to niksupport several times a week.  Trying various things as they ask.  They have now kicked this up to their engineering team somewhere overseas.  Early on they had me uninstall LR5 and the Nik Suite.  Reinstall everything, etc.  The way things stand now the images edited in Silver Efex look virtually the same in the Develop and Library modules.  The big problem still is that when I have the edit done in Silver Efex it looks exactly as I want.  When I press save and it sends it back to LR5 where it lands in the Develop module and looks quite different.  Much lower contrast and a tad darker.   And yes when I export the file as a jpg or a tiff it looks as it does in Develop and Library and nothing at all like what it was before going back from Silver Efex into LR5. 

They seem to think the problem is my Nec P271W monitor uses LUT's for profiling and not matrix.  They say there plugins all require LUT's and won't work properly with matrix based profiles.  Which can't be true.  The other plugins I have from Nik work perfectly.  Also I would imagine I am not the only photographer using the NecP271W monitor that is using Silver Efex or Nik software in general. 

I don't understand profiling and calibration all that well.  I know that over the years whatever monitors I used I bought the appropriate colorimeter device.  And I know that out of the box my various monitors never looked quite right but upon using the colorimeter things looked much, much better. 

If it turns out to be an LUT issue is it possible to replace them with matrix based profiles?   What is involved in doing this?  Is it strictly a software issue or do I need a different calibration device?  Does the graphics card play a role in this equation?   They are quite insistent that their plugins are to only be used with matrix based profiles.  But surely there are lots of photographers out there using them and getting issue free results using LUT's. 

[Schewe]

I am hoping someone out there has experienced this and/or knows how to correct this problem.

No specifics but some questions...

What color space do you have set for your external editing preferences? What bit depth? What format? What compression?

Have you looked at the file that Silver Efex saved in Photoshop (or another color managed app)? When you open it, what color space is embedded in the file?

When you look at the image in LR's Develop module, what does the image history look like? Is there any stray history steps?

When you look in the Metadata menu, at the bottom, is the Save or Read Metadata from File grayed out? Or is there an option to Read the metadata (which means LR thinks there is a metadata mismatch between what's in the file vs what's in the LR database).

BTW, Nik support's discussion of display profiles it totally bogus and ignorant...there is no way that the display profile can alter the viability of an image. It may alter how the image is displayed, but as long as the profile is not hosed and it's tagged as a Display class profile, that should have zero bearing on the image. And there would be no difference between Library & Display since LR is using the same profile in each case.

The only thing you haven't mentioned is how you are calibrating the display and what hardware/software you are using.

[ambystoma]

Color Space is sRGB, 16 bit depth, and no compression.

Yes I have looked at images in Photoshop CC and the color space is consistent to what is in the external editing preferences.  Depending on client I will sometimes go back and forth between sRGB and Adobe1998.

As for history remember when I am done editing an imagine in Silver Efex I press save and that sends the image back into Lightroom5 where it lands in the Develop module by default.  When it arrives it has no history attached to it other than it was exported into Lightroom.   The images before I send them from Lightroom over to Silver Efex all have the full history and nothing is grayed out. 

I just checked and my other Nik Plugins work the same way. 

As for metadata the Save and Read options are present in bot the pre-edit and post-edit files and at no time are they grayed out.

My display is the Nec Multisync PA271W and I am using the Nec MDSVSENSOR, powered by Xrite.  This is what came with the monitor and the software is Nec SpectraView II for Windows version 1.1.07  The target settings I select for calibration are Photo Editing.   My card is a GeForce GTX 560 Ti

All drivers were upgraded to current versions. 

[JimAscher]

...As for history remember when I am done editing an imagine in Silver Efex I press save and that sends the image back into Lightroom5 where it lands in the Develop module by default.  When it arrives it has no history attached to it other than it was exported into Lightroom.   The images before I send them from Lightroom over to Silver Efex all have the full history and nothing is grayed out. 

I am entering this discussion, briefly, rather late, only to comment on one aspect.  I have been using Silver Efex Pro 2 with Lightroom successfully now for years without the problem you describe.  (I do employ a two-monitor system, which I believe though to be irrelevant to this issue.)  I transfer an image from LR to SEP as an "Edit A Copy With Lightroom Adjustments" file.  After working on the image in SEP I Save it, and it returns to LR in the Library (not Develop) module.  I notice no difference in display quality in the transference.  My suggestion to you to explore is why my experience returns the SEP edited photo to the LR Library module rather than, as in your case, to the LR Develop module.  Good luck.

[ambystoma]

Yes I use "Edit A Copy With Lightroom Adjustments"  as well.    I broached the module issue early on with Nik support.  They claim that the image returns to whatever Lightroom module it was sent from.  Since the vast majority of users work on their images in the develop module first, they generally send the images from develop into Sliver Efex as it would seem to be an extra step to edit in develop and then switch over to library before going to Silver Efex.   For what it is worth they claim it makes no difference at all.  And in my experience, as I tried it, it makes no difference whether I send and have the image return from Library or Develop.  The only difference from my view is that I see no point in the extra step of finishing an edit in Develop and then going back to Library before sending to Silver Efex.   And most photographers, I believe work in this manner.  So it is in effect a defacto default just based on the way most work in Lightroom. 

[JimAscher]

Yes I use "Edit A Copy With Lightroom Adjustments"  as well.    I broached the module issue early on with Nik support.  They claim that the image returns to whatever Lightroom module it was sent from.  Since the vast majority of users work on their images in the develop module first, they generally send the images from develop into Sliver Efex as it would seem to be an extra step to edit in develop and then switch over to library before going to Silver Efex.   For what it is worth they claim it makes no difference at all.  And in my experience, as I tried it, it makes no difference whether I send and have the image return from Library or Develop.  The only difference from my view is that I see no point in the extra step of finishing an edit in Develop and then going back to Library before sending to Silver Efex.   And most photographers, I believe work in this manner.  So it is in effect a defacto default just based on the way most work in Lightroom. 

Thanks for the explanation.  That does make sense.  However, my working technique with SEP is not to do any initial processing in the Develop module (except maybe for some initial cropping of the image) before sending it off to SEP.  It is only after I bring it back (save it) from SEP with the tonalities I have chosen (prefer) that I might do further processing in the Develop module.

[Steve House]

Color Space is sRGB, 16 bit depth, and no compression.

Yes I have looked at images in Photoshop CC and the color space is consistent to what is in the external editing preferences.  Depending on client I will sometimes go back and forth between sRGB and Adobe1998.
...

I would investigate the thought that the issue is in converting to the sRGB colour space and back again to a wider one such as aRGB or Lightroom's native ProPhoto.  Converting to sRGB tosses out some colour info.  Once it's gone, it's gone and you don't get it back when converting the other direction.  Yes, SFX is converting to monochrome but the file it's converting has already been degraded in the process of exporting it in sRGB.  Try keeping your images in the widest colour space possible throughout the process, only converting to sRGB or aRGB when doing the final export of the file to give to your client.  Lightroom's develop module displays its previews in ProPhoto, the library module in aRGB.

[ambystoma]

That makes no difference.  While I do work in sRGB most of the time.  After this started happening I tried Adobe 1998 and ProPhoto.  Made no difference.  The image change from the final edit in Sliver efex to when it arrived back in LR5 was similar and unacceptable.