persistant banding on my 9800

[neilwill]

Firstly I would like to thank all the people who have inadvertently helped me on this forum in the past, I find it a constant source of helpful info.

My current problem is with my 9800 and persistent banding in the shadow areas of prints.
I have cleaned the capping station, wiper blade, print head etc using the paper towel and Windex method.
Run cleaning cycles.
Printed nozzle checks come out flawless.
Yet the (faint) horizontal banding in shadow areas is persistent. 
Problem improves if I print at 1440 instead of 720.

Seem to remember reading another post with the same problem and it was suggested that the print head had reached the end of its life and needed replacing?
I'm in South Africa and to get a new head shipped out costs a small fortune. Before I do that was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or had had a similar situation?
Thanks in advance,

Neil

[jferrari]

What does your nozzle check look like?

[BrianWJH]

Neil, could be partially clogged ink dampers, they are much cheaper than a printhead and must be removed if replacing the printhead so worth doing anyway.

Brian.

[Paul2660]

If you have a perfect nozzle check I don't believe it's your head, double check to make sure all the yellow is printing, as that can be hard to see and will cause the issue you are having. 

What is the platen gap setting, and does it happen on all papers, or just some.  Platen gap setting can also cause this issue especially in the shadows or areas where blacks are being laid down.  In my experience more problematic with matte black ink. What happens if you print a solid black square?  Does is have banding?  What about grey?  or very light grey?

If that is all OK, I would consider re-aligning the print head.  This can be done from the printer via a series of prints that you make and then pick the best pattern.  This also may not fix it.  But it's easy to do on the 9800 series and worth a try. 

I personally can't see the damper causing this, as in my experience a damper issue causes banding, and lack of ink delivery to the head creating large areas of no ink on the nozzle check, but that is again just in my experience.  As mentioned earlier, the damper in this printer is easier to replace than the newer ones. 

If you do replace the head, you will have to have the Epson service program to set it up for the the printer, and re-align it.  This is not the same process as the alignment I mentioned earlier that can be run from the printer LCD.

Paul

[Garnick]

Hello Neil,

Something I learned many years ago is that a "perfect" nozzle check pattern isn't always an indication that your print will not have issues.  it is after all the print that really matters, and sometimes another cleaning cycle will solve the problem.  Of course those two statements cannot be taken as fact in every case, but I believe it is at least one more thing to consider.  As a matter of fact, with the 9900 I have printed on several occasions when there was a small gap near the bottom of a nozzle pattern, without any noticeable detrimental effects.  I've found that if the gap is within the bottom three or four rows I'll run my "test" print and do a very tight visual inspection.  If I see nothing to be concerned about I go ahead and print.  Of course if there is more than one gap in a nozzle I will generally run a cleaning cycle and then my test print.

I have no knowledge of the 9800, but if you can access the "maintenance mode" or often called the "serviceman mode" it's a good idea to run your cleaning cycles form there.  I believe that is more efficient as well as more effective all round.  You can do pairs cleaning and there are four levels as well.  I wouldn't advise using the Super level though.  Don't remember the actual name, since I never use it.  Also, run a print between each cleaning cycle.  That way all of the nozzles are getting a workout and it's not as much of an issue with the printhead.  I hope this may be of some help Neil.  Keep in touch.

Gary          

[Garnick]

If you have a perfect nozzle check I don't believe it's your head, double check to make sure all the yellow is printing, as that can be hard to see and will cause the issue you are having. 

What is the platen gap setting, and does it happen on all papers, or just some.  Platen gap setting can also cause this issue especially in the shadows or areas where blacks are being laid down.  In my experience more problematic with matte black ink. What happens if you print a solid black square?  Does is have banding?  What about grey?  or very light grey?

If that is all OK, I would consider re-aligning the print head.  This can be done from the printer via a series of prints that you make and then pick the best pattern.  This also may not fix it.  But it's easy to do on the 9800 series and worth a try. 

I personally can't see the damper causing this, as in my experience a damper issue causes banding, and lack of ink delivery to the head creating large areas of no ink on the nozzle check, but that is again just in my experience.  As mentioned earlier, the damper in this printer is easier to replace than the newer ones. 

If you do replace the head, you will have to have the Epson service program to set it up for the the printer, and re-align it.  This is not the same process as the alignment I mentioned earlier that can be run from the printer LCD.

Paul

A big YES to all of what Paul has mentioned!

Gary

[neilwill]

Firstly a huge thank you to all the helpful advice, much appreciated.

I have tried various things and can report the following....
Nozzle check print outs continue to appear correct, even under close scrutiny.
As Paul suggested, I created a test image of a black square, a mid tone grey square and a light grey square. With interesting results.
The black and light grey squares printed perfectly at all times, but the horizontal banding is persistent in the mid tone grey.

Adjusting the platen gap appeared to make no difference.
Turning bi-directional printing on and off appeared to make no difference.
Printing at 1440 dpi instead of 720dpi improved the banding in the mid tone but did not clear it completely.
What did make a dramatic difference was reducing the 'paper feed adjustment' by a large amount (-50). This did not clear the problem completely, but reduced the banding (as always in the mid tone grey only) to very thin and faint, only visible to close scrutiny.

The Epson 9800 Field Repair Guide says the if adjusting the 'feed step' affects the banding then the problem is 'feed related'.

But the banding is only in certain tones, which seems to me to suggest that the problem must be either nozzle or ink delivery related? If it was a 'feed' problem the surely the banding would be across all tones?

I am going to try experimenting with printing some colour charts and see if I can identify if any of the colours are 'off'.

Many thanks again for all the feedback and advice so far,

Neil

[BrianWJH]

Hi Neil, besides checking the dampers might be worth trying another LK cartridge in case the cart has a pressure leak or faulty valve, the only other things that come to mind is the LK ink holder valve could be faulty/partially blocked or a partially blocked ink line.

Brian.

[darlingm]

Are you running high speed mode?  (Heads print while going both directions.)  I have a 9900, and assume the 9800 has this mode but don't know for sure.  Some banding issues are made worse in high speed mode.

[neilwill]

Thanks again for all the responses and helpful advice. Apologies for the delayed response my side.

I started this thread out by saying that my printed nozzle checks were flawless. That was until finally, after a week of endless cleans and flushes and experiments with various settings, someone with sharper eyes and a magnifying glass pointed out an incredibly faint but repeated fault in the Light Black channel of the numerous nozzle check prints. On the 'thin stepped line' print outs, one of the 'steps' is ever so slightly deflected/out of pattern, by less then a mill. On the 'solid square chess board' style nozzle check, one of the squares is very faintly less solid then the rest of its group.

This defect, very small and faint, is repeated every time by the same nozzle, indicating that the problem is indeed, after all, a deflected or partially blocked nozzle.

What I have learned from this is that if you do have banding in your prints, you need to check the nozzle print outs very very carefully with a loupe or magnifying glass. The anomaly can be very small.

Now that I have determined I do have a faulty nozzle, I need to decide whether to try replace the print head?

As mentioned, I have tried to clean the head using the machines internal cleaning cycles and the 'windex on paper towel' methods.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
What about the 'SS Clean' in the Maintenance Mode?

The printer has worked great for about 6 years, at times sitting for a week without been turned on; has been a real workhorse for me, I really can't complain.

Any suggestions about 'last throw of the dice' things I might try before I order a new head?

Many thanks\
Neil
www.printartct.co.za




 

       

[BrianWJH]

Any suggestions about 'last throw of the dice' things I might try before I order a new head?

Neil, I would try the following starting with the easiest:

• Clean the capping station
• Replace the wiper blade
• Remove the printhead, carefully and gently using foam swabs clean the printhead nozzle face with printhead flushing solution. Test the nozzle flow from all nozzles using good quality demineralised water injected into the printhead ink ports using a syringe and piece of silicone tubing. Deflected and blocked nozzles can be seen using this water injection method
• If blocked or deflected nozzles are discovered and cleaning the printhead nozzle face doesn't fix the problem then try flushing the printhead with flushing fluid, you may need to leave the fluid in the printhead for a few days to loosen/dissolve pigment blockages
• When nozzle flow testing shows good even flow with no deflections, replace the ink dampers then prime the new dampers with ink and reassemble the printhead and test

Parts Sources:

Foam swabs and ink dampers are available on eBay from this link.

The correct techniques for nozzle flushing and flow testing the printhead and priming the dampers are shown on this youtube video link.

The video is for an Epson 4880 however the principles are the same for the 9800.

Flushing fluid is available from Jon Cone at InkjetMall.com or AIS American Inkjet Systems

Syringes and silicone tubing is available from Pharmacies/Chemists as a diabetic insulin injection kit.

Brian.

[Paul2660]

SSC, Super Strong Cleaning.  This came about in the days of the 7600/9600.  On those printers you had to run this from the printer utility, to get the strongest cleaning.  I did this once on one of my 2 7600's and it did fix what seemed to be a terminal clog.  This does take quite a bit of ink but may be worth trying. 

On the 9800 family, I don't know if you have the same option to run from the printer utility software from the PC/Mac or it needs to be run from the printer. 

This post from this forum talks more about the AIS fluid:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=84790.0

One other thing, if you do replace the head, it has to re-aligned to the printer.  This process requires an Epson specific piece of software.  You can usually find a head, but the software is not as easy or next to impossible to find.  It will be windows only.  It's unique to the 9800 series of printers.  This process has been talked about a lot in the 7900/9900 family as head replacements seems to be more common, however on the older printers, you still need this software.  It's not the same software used on the newer printers.   I have also been told that the actual physical process of replacing the head in the 9800/9880 family of printers is a bit more difficult than in the 9900/7900.  I have never done it so I can only report what I have read. 

My point, you have a 6 year old printer.  If you replace the head yourself, unless you are well versed in this process you might end up with more trouble.  If you let Epson do it (not sure who they use there for this type of work), you also may get someone who has not worked on a 9800 and again may end up with more trouble.   Either way the head/warranty is only 90 days.  If you feel that it's come to a head replacement, I would look at a new printer.  I realize the cost basis in your location is more than in the U.S. but it's just a thought. 

If you are looking at head replacement, make sure you take a look at this post by Eric G:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=61585.0

World record for largest post on LuLa I believe but lots of good info.  Net, Eric's website has a lot of info on working on the 9900 family, and you can glean some more info on head replacements.  I realize this is a different printer, but it's a good start. 

If you run the SSC and still have the deflection, you might try the AIS fluid. 

Paul

[BrianWJH]

I wouldn't inject water directly into the head as doing so can cause a 1A39 error or print head failure.

Which is why I specifically stated good quality demineralised or de-ionised water which is is basically an insulator, tap water will contain mineral salts which render the water a conductor.

Secondly, Epson K3 Ultrachrome pigment ink contains between 25% to 55% de-ionised water.

Brian.

[BrianWJH]

Yes it's always a risk but in this case it's in the context of the OP's last post i.e. "Any suggestions about 'last throw of the dice' things I might try before I order a new head?"

Also the x800, x880 heads seem to be not as fragile as the x900 newer heads.

Brian.

[neilwill]

Thanks everyone.

As I mentioned earlier, I initially failed to spot the defect in my nozzle check prints. Once my mistake was pointed out to me, I can now observe the same, faint, defect in every nozzle check. Clearly the source of the problem. Attached below are 2 nozzle check prints with the defect.

Also attached are 2 examples of the banding. Much more noticeable in the mid tones of the 'grey scale steps'. And much more noticeable in the mid toned hues of the 'colour checker'. Consistent with logic of a clogged LK nozzle?

Parked the head over a Windex soaked paper towel for 8 hours. No luck.
Repeated cleaning of capping  station, wiper blade etc.
Power cleaning, funnily enough, makes it worse, I get a whole range of dropped nozzles after that, takes a bunch of prints to get back to only the trusty LK clog.
Ditto with SS Clean in Maintenance Mode.

Following other success stories on this forum, I am going to order cleaning fluid from AIS and try their recommendations.
If that doesn't work I will pull head out 'float/kiss' head over fluid overnight, I know this has worked for some.

If still no joy then final last gasp effort of physically flushing fluid through head using syringe, though I understand that should really be last option due to chance of damaging membranes inside head.

Must mention again that this machine has been a real workhorse for me for years with very little maintenance while producing hundreds of great prints.

Neil