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Author Topic: New Leica T-Type 701  (Read 49841 times)

JV

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2014, 06:16:35 pm »

I hope they sell a shitload of these Ts...

I hope some of the ideas from the T make it into the M as well…

I hope both further make the development possible of the S system, a few more focus points for one would be nice...
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mezzoduomo

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2014, 06:34:29 pm »

I think you can count on the first 2, JV. The good Dr. has created an energetic, forward-looking, modern company. And he's making a barrel-full of money, some of which is likely to translate into some fruitful R&D in future.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 11:14:00 pm by mezzoduomo »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2014, 12:50:53 am »

Do we know for a fact where the sensor is sourced from?

I'd be very surprised if it weren't Sony. It wouldn't make much sense for Leica to buy a small batch/high price unproven design when the Sony APS-C is cheap and performs better than FF sensors of some vendors.

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2014, 06:42:40 am »

Do we know for a fact where the sensor is sourced from?

I'd be very surprised if it weren't Sony. It wouldn't make much sense for Leica to buy a small batch/high price unproven design when the Sony APS-C is cheap and performs better than FF sensors of some vendors.

No, we don't. At least I don't. Asked the question and was told 'can't say ...' None of the reviewers seem to know either. There was even a doubt as to whether or not there was an AA filter!

There may well be a good reason why Leica are keeping so tight-lipped about it ...

M
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2014, 08:42:16 am »

There may well be a good reason why Leica are keeping so tight-lipped about it ...

OK, then I guess it is indeed Sony. I cannot think of any reason why they wouldn't want to quote the source if it was something special offering positive differentiation.

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2014, 11:34:08 am »

OK, then I guess it is indeed Sony. I cannot think of any reason why they wouldn't want to quote the source if it was something special offering positive differentiation.

Hi Bernard,

Perhaps the reason is that all the T-701 reviews are based on pre-production models running beta firmware, and the 'reviewers' are still sending feedback to Leica. Whatever the reasons, though, I've never known Leica to be quite so secretive.

M
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 11:58:13 am by Manoli »
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mezzoduomo

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2014, 11:02:12 pm »

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Robert Falconer

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Official Fujifilm brand ambassador (X-Photographer) | Contributing Editor, Nikon Owner Magazine

Telecaster

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2014, 01:53:54 pm »

Erwin's take is the typical plaintive "Why can't we just keep doing things the old way?"   ::)

-Dave-
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bcooter

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2014, 03:19:05 pm »

I enjoy taking pics with my phone & its minimalist interface. It's a different thing to using a rangefinder or an SLR, but it works really well. IMO putting a good amount of the T's interface on the rear LCD makes sense, if for no other reason than in terms of appeal to folks familiar & comfortable with touch surfaces. Curmudgeons may grumble, but this camera isn't for them. (It's not for me either...the last thing I need is more photo gear.)

-Dave-


Dave, love your open mind.

Personally I'm impressed with Leica.

They are producing new product, traditional product and professional product.

All from a company that was given up for dead a decade ago. 

I love the idea of the T series.   It's not the camera for me, because it's too large to drop in a pocket too small for most professional work, but if you want a modern version of the M, then they made it.

They do need lenses and that's the one thing every maker seems to have issues with on new introductions and Leica needs to up their video quality to make a true modern multimedia camera.

What I would really love to see is a photographer's mobile phone.  A dedicated camera first, phone second I think would be a big hit, all done in the Leica T/Mac Style.

Last Saturday we went to the Hollywood Bowl to see Black Sabbath.  Had great seats, first row from the media area so decent enough view to shoot some images to send to friends and family.

Like everyone in the crowd I taped away at will.  Standing next to me was a 25/30 year old woman, with a Leica M8.  Now an M8 isn't really a concert camera, but you could tell she knew what she was doing.

She pre focused, by measurement, set the exposure and the moment she put the camera to her eye security stopped her.   She obviously wasn't shooting for commerce and with an M8 going to break some kind of liscesning agreement, unless Getty owned the stills (which is more and more commonplace).

I would imagine she was shooting personally or for a blog, but none the less, she was less intrusive than the 5,000 shaky videos that were going to be on you tube that night.

Why stop her?  Because she was holding a real camera.

IMO

BC
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BJL

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New Leica T system: a few points in its favor
« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2014, 05:42:06 pm »

Though the prices make no sense for me, I will say a few things in defense of the Leica T system:

1) Sensor price and performance are only very loosely related to the appropriate price for a camera: some 35mm film cameras (like Leica M's and the top-of-the-line Canon and Nikon models) justified costing about ten times as much as other cameras using the same "sensors" (36x24mm frames of 135 film), and even costing more that the most affordable medium format cameras, like the Pentax 645. So to me it is nonsense to argue that a camera cannot be worth significantly more than the cheapest camera with the same or similar sensor.  [Doug Peterson will agree, even if no one else does!]

2) If "f/8 and be there" is your thing in 35mm format of the sake of getting enough DOF, then the f/5.6 and faster T system lenses do the same in its format -- except with vastly better low light abilities than 35mm film @ f/8 ever offered. Indeed, the available lenses already offer better low light performance than 35mm film with any Leica lens. So it is nonsense to declare than the lenses limit this camera to good light or use on a tripod.  [Granted, IS would make this even more true.  I can see Leica moving towards sensor-based IS, perhaps with help from Panasonic which has only recently developed that, but Leica lens purity probably rules out the use of wiggling lens elements.]

2) The Leica T is potentially the first camera to design an interface around the use of a touch screen, rather than just clumsily tacking some touch features onto an 80's flavored "viewscreen, four way arrows and nested menus" interface. The difference between this and the Olympus touch screen interface that I suffer with could be like the difference between the touch interfaces of an iPad and a Windows XP tablet.  Not worth the extra thousands, but it is one of several signs that Leica is taking a serious and forward-looking approach to the T system, very unlike certain recent Hasselblad product lines.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 08:47:58 pm by BJL »
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Telecaster

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2014, 06:12:35 pm »

What I would really love to see is a photographer's mobile phone. A dedicated camera first, phone second I think would be a big hit, all done in the Leica T/Mac Style.

Last Saturday we went to the Hollywood Bowl to see Black Sabbath. Had great seats, first row from the media area so decent enough view to shoot some images to send to friends and family.

Like everyone in the crowd I taped away at will. Standing next to me was a 25/30 year old woman, with a Leica M8. Now an M8 isn't really a concert camera, but you could tell she knew what she was doing.

Why stop her? Because she was holding a real camera.

IMO

Thumbs up on the camera-centric smartdevice.

Hope Sabbath played "War Pigs."   ;)

It must be rough to do security at shows nowadays with all that recordin' & photographin' & videoin' & copyright violatin' goin' on. Gotta stop someone, dammit!

-Dave-
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Jim Kasson

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2014, 06:42:00 pm »

What I would really love to see is a photographer's mobile phone.  A dedicated camera first, phone second

Maybe an updated version of this eight-year-old one?

Jim

OldRoy

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(Very) secret sauce
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2014, 04:47:22 pm »

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/leica-t-typ701/6

I'll refrain from comment and look forward to comments by more discerning, Leica-aware, contributors.
Roy
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JV

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2014, 10:51:30 pm »

Overall, we have no problem with Leica using this technology - incorporating software corrections into lens designs has enabled the creation of a range of very good lenses that wouldn't have been feasible if only glass were used. The only thing that we'd take issue with is the company claiming not to use this approach, when it so clearly is.

I actually thought it was common knowledge that Leica also did this…

Why else would M glass be better on M cameras than on other cameras?
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telyt

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2014, 11:00:38 pm »

I actually thought it was common knowledge that Leica also did this…

Common knowledge or not (there may be some denial involved) software correction goes back at least to the Leica DMR.
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OldRoy

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Secret sauce cont.
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2014, 12:27:22 pm »

The DPR article begins:
"During pre-launch briefings for the T, Leica was very keen to stress the optical quality of the new lenses. Most interestingly, we were told they relied on optical corrections, rather than software to project the best possible image onto the sensor.

No one would suggest that Leica shouldn't use software correction, I believe. But it's hypocritical to suggest that you produce a lens that doesn't require such correction whilst actually incorporating it in order to compensate for some fairly extreme deficiencies - and then charging a preposterous sum for a slow, variable aperture, kit zoom.

This sort of bull5h!t is why many people are justifiably cynical about Leica in its current incarnation as a manufacturer of baubles like this one.
Roy
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Telecaster

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Re: Secret sauce cont.
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2014, 03:25:59 pm »

The DPR article begins:
"During pre-launch briefings for the T, Leica was very keen to stress the optical quality of the new lenses. Most interestingly, we were told they relied on optical corrections, rather than software to project the best possible image onto the sensor.

No one would suggest that Leica shouldn't use software correction, I believe. But it's hypocritical to suggest that you produce a lens that doesn't require such correction whilst actually incorporating it in order to compensate for some fairly extreme deficiencies - and then charging a preposterous sum for a slow, variable aperture, kit zoom.

This sort of bull5h!t is why many people are justifiably cynical about Leica in its current incarnation as a manufacturer of baubles like this one.

Given that Leica does indeed employ software lens correction in various cameras—and has made no effort whatsoever to hide this...hell, they've even highlighted it—my guess is DPR has misunderstood what it claims to have been "told."

People who rag on Leica re. their pricing, or view their products as baubles, don't seem to get that the company's primary target market is the affluent. They're not trying to appeal to a broad demographic. Now you can certainly object to that as a strategy...but it's been a successful one and it's why the company still exists.

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2014, 07:38:53 pm »

Just read this on DPreview and could help thinking "why on earth did they waste time publishing this crap".

Frankly, who cares whether they use software based distorsion correction or not? DxO has proven for years that it can be done without much visible image quality drop. Releasing an optical design with less focus on distorsion correction makes it possible to optimize other important parameters, so you end up with better image quality.

We buy systems, not lenses, especially in the case of totally closed solutions such as the Leica T.

Cheers,
Bernard

OldRoy

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Re: New Leica T-Type 701
« Reply #79 on: May 05, 2014, 02:11:38 pm »

Just read this on DPreview and could help thinking "why on earth did they waste time publishing this crap".

Frankly, who cares whether they use software based distorsion correction or not? DxO has proven for years that it can be done without much visible image quality drop. Releasing an optical design with less focus on distorsion correction makes it possible to optimize other important parameters, so you end up with better image quality.

We buy systems, not lenses, especially in the case of totally closed solutions such as the Leica T.

Cheers,
Bernard
You are missing the point. Probably intentionally.
Roy
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