Pentax 645Z

[tsjanik]

That's actually a good point. Are there still flaws with the 645Z? Sure, same with any camera. The question is whether the flaws are neutral or negative to the main purpose for which one uses the camera. The flaws with the Sony a7R, for example, are such that I don't really enjoy using it as much as I thought I would. I can get the job done with it, but it feels like I have to work at it much more consciously and I'm sometimes right on the edge of not getting the results I want. It's not the full, net-positive step up from my old Canon 35mm bodies (e.g. 5D Mk II) that I was quite thinking it would be.

After shooting the 645D heavily for over 3.5 years, I had what I thought were pretty solid but reasonable expectations for what the Z should or would be like. I would say the Z is exceeding my expectations as well. And it just feels really good to use.

Royce:

Like you, I've had the 645D for almost 4 years and am still thrilled with the camera.  I'm on the fence (but teetering) over the 645Z. I don't have the 25mm; the cost and weight have made me hesitant.  The new zoom appears promising, but still has a weight and cost penalty.  I have considered purchasing an A7r with a Zeiss 21mm, which would give me a small system, comparable images to the D and would cost considerably less than a Z, not to mention a Z and the 25mm.  I would be appreciative if you would expand your comments on the Sony and why you're not comfortable with the camera.  

After doing my initial review, I purchased one for my own use. I will have a more comprehensive report in a few weeks.
............................

Michael

Michael, I hope you will discuss the Z vs. A7r as well.

Best,

Tom

[Ken R]

The main concern for a lot of people remains the lenses.

Everybody knows that the Leica, Hy6, Hasselblad, Contax 645 and Phase One glass is excellent.

How many of the Pentax lenses are at that level?

I had the 645D and a few lenses and the lenses are ok just as long as you do not use them wide open with the exception of the 55mm and the 90mm macro which are nice even wide open. So for landscape the lenses are acceptable. For portrait and commercial work with people I prefer the Hasselblad H or the Phase/SK leaf shutter lenses (specially for when working with flash).

In build quality and feel the Pentax lenses are good but a notch below the Leica S, Hy6, Hasselblad, Contax 645 and Phase One glass. I would say only the 90mm macro gets up to the level of those other brands optically speaking but I do not like the bokeh of that lens. The 55mm is about on par to some. The 25mm supposedly is also good but there is a good bit of sample variation (again from what has been said online). Most of the A and FA (Pentax 645) lenses are good at f8-f16 but much less so wide open or close to wide open. The 120mm macro is a really good lens optically (for its intended macro purpose) in A or FA version. So there are some good lens options for the Pentax if you do your research and understand their limitations.

My impression is that the Pentax body is generally better than the lenses, in performance and build quality / feel.

[JV]

I had the 645D and a few lenses and the lenses are ok just as long as you do not use them wide open with the exception of the 55mm and the 90mm macro which are nice even wide open. So for landscape the lenses are acceptable. For portrait and commercial work with people I prefer the Hasselblad H or the Phase/SK leaf shutter lenses (specially for when working with flash).

In build quality and feel the Pentax lenses are good but a notch below the Leica S, Hy6, Hasselblad, Contax 645 and Phase One glass. I would say only the 90mm macro gets up to the level of those other brands optically speaking but I do not like the bokeh of that lens. The 55mm is about on par to some. The 25mm supposedly is also good but there is a good bit of sample variation (again from what has been said online). Most of the A and FA (Pentax 645) lenses are good at f8-f16 but much less so wide open or close to wide open. The 120mm macro is a really good lens optically (for its intended macro purpose) in A or FA version. So there are some good lens options for the Pentax if you do your research and understand their limitations.

My impression is that the Pentax body is generally better than the lenses, in performance and build quality / feel.

I fear for Pentax that the lenses indeed are going to be the challenge,  It will be interesting to read what Michael has to say about that.

With the current prices of Phase One/Hasselblad/Pentax, if Leica priced their new body sensibly they really could take a much larger part of the MF market I feel.

Provided they want to...

[eronald]

I fear for Pentax that the lenses indeed are going to be the challenge,  It will be interesting to read what Michael has to say about that.

With the current prices of Phase One/Hasselblad/Pentax, if Leica priced their new body sensibly they really could take a much larger part of the MF market I feel.

Provided they want to...

The problem with Leica is exponentially increasing pricing; I think they are now on their second price increase this year on the M240. They have boxed themselves into the luxury category even though their products are useful.

Edmund

[JV]

The problem with Leica is exponentially increasing pricing; I think they are now on their second price increase this year on the M240. They have boxed themselves into the luxury category even though their products are useful.

Edmund

Yes, same for the Leica S lenses, the 30-90mm zoom went from $10,900 to $11,400 in January and 6 months later from $11,400 to $11,750…

If they are smart it would make sense though to keep the price of the body as low as possible…

Phase One and Hasselblad prices for CMOS are ridiculous IMO… the Hasselblad 200MS went from $44K to $50K...

[Telecaster]

With the 645D I don't feel the lenses are a weak point. I use 'em mostly well stopped down for deep DOF, with the camera on a tripod, and performance across the board is fine & dandy. (I own a 35/75/120/150/200mm set from film days along with the newer 55mm.) The 150 is a real nice portrait lens wide open too, not because it's "soft" at f/2.8 (though it is a bit) but because it delivers a pleasing look with faces. Are the Pentax FAs the sharpest MF lenses around at wider apertures? Nope. But given how I use 'em I have no reason to care.

-Dave-

[tsjanik]

I agree Dave.  I have 20+ of the Pentax 645 and 67 lenses and a few  are sharp wide open, but all improve on stopping down.  I have no idea why these lenses are so underrated  by some.  A few years ago, it was very difficult to find a 645 35mm FA, in part because many were being used with a Zoerk adapter on Canon cameras.  I know of few comparison tests of MF lenses, but here's an old one that explains why the 35mm was in demand:

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax645_fa35mm.html

[michael]

I have six Pentax lenses, and not one disappoints. But as has benn said, it depends on ones use and expectations.

The stars in my collection are the 35mm and 120 macro. The 75mm f/2.8 is also very good, even wide open.
Tax,
The 300mm is excellent but one needs top technique to avoid vibration.

The two zoom, 45-85mm and 80-160mm again should be used stopped down at least two stops, but then are as good as anything I've used.

I have used Hasselblad V and H lenses, Contax, and Phase /Mamiya. In real world shooting (not pixel peeping test charts) I find little that makes me wish I was using any of the former. But is I wanted some Hassy V series glass then a simple adaptor is all that's needed and CF lenses are available for a song.

Leica S lenses? Who wouldn't want them? But a proper set of glass will cost about the same as a mid-range BMW, and out of my spending comfort zone.

Cost is a real world issue. Pentax 645 has remained very popular in Japan while it mostly disappeared in North America and Europe during the past decade. If you look at e-Bay you see many lenses available from Japanese dealers in Mint or A++ condition for very reasonable prices. I bought six Pentax 645 lenses last month for just over $6000. Together with my 645z body, the whole system cost about $15,000.

So far the system totally satisfies from the perspective of usability, image quality and price. Putting something comparable together from Leica, Phase or Hasselblad would cost many times more.

My report is still a few weeks away, but in my view the Pentax 645z system currently trumps anything else. Perfect...no. Good enough for me? Yes.

Michael

[Paul2660]

No doubt the 35FA was a great lens as mentioned on a 16mp or 20 Mp 35mm sensor with the Zork adapter.  I was able to test mine on the 645D before I sold it (bad moved on my part) on the 35FA was very good on that camera also.

I am assuming Pentax has re-released the 35FA for US sales as it had been not available for quite a while.

Still feel the Pentax dealer presence needs more focus in the US.

Paul

[bcooter]

......snip...... but in my view the Pentax 645z system currently trumps anything else. Perfect...no. Good enough for me? Yes.

Michael

Wow Michael,

That's great . . . actually amazing considering all the cameras you've tested.   

Who would have thought we'd be offered a larger than 35mm camera with 35mm usability at 1/4 the price of traditional digital medium format.

Now if they just get it to tether and Pentax does a better job of getting their message out, past the borders of Japan.

IMO

BC

[Ken R]

No doubt the 35FA was a great lens as mentioned on a 16mp or 20 Mp 35mm sensor with the Zork adapter.  I was able to test mine on the 645D before I sold it (bad moved on my part) on the 35FA was very good on that camera also.

I am assuming Pentax has re-released the 35FA for US sales as it had been not available for quite a while.

Still feel the Pentax dealer presence needs more focus in the US.

Paul

I actually purchased both the 35mm A and the FA for use on my 645D and tested them thoroughly. Even at optimum apertures (around f11) the 35 A (manual focus) lens was the best no question. The 35mm FA (at least the one I had) never had sharp corners at any aperture. In the extreme corners it was extremely noticeable (the reduced sharpness). It was odd but at closer focus distances (10 feet) it performed much better but since I wanted it for landscapes the performance at infinity focus was very important to me so the 35mm A won easily. In fact I still have it here. I tried to sell it for a while but no one snatched it even at $400. I still have the 120mm A and the 45-85mm FA. (again, put em up for sale, ebay and FM and no one...). Both lenses are also really good at f11 which is basically my mostly used aperture for landscapes.

I have the Hasselblad H1 with the 80mm f2.8 lens and that lens is very good at any aperture. I mostly use it wide open for shooting people (with the PhaseOne IQ160). I had the 75mm f2.8 Pentax FA lens and it was pretty bad wide open. I have also tried the Hasselblad 210mm, 150mm, 120mm and 100mm H lenses and they performed great also. They can be used at any aperture without concern (except diffraction at f16 and beyond). They offer very very consistent performance. (they match very well as a set, color / contrast very similar). Again, if all you do is shoot at f11 (+- 1 stop) then all this is of no concern.

As a camera body the Pentax 645D (and I suspect the 645Z raises the bar even more) is the best Medium Format Camera ever made along with the Leica S/S2 (and the upcoming 50mp version). As a system, the answer is not so simple, it depends on each one's needs and wants.

[Theodoros]

I believe that the 645z cannot be considered as an MF alternative... It can be considered as a D800/e/810 alternative and then judged by price if it worths or not the extra cash required, but it being a DSLR without any modularity consideration on the system, it can't apply to the idea behind using an MFDB or give the solutions that an advanced photographer is after...

If Pentax would ever decide to make another version of the camera with modularity in mind that would permit to remove the back and/or the finders... then things could be different, but now, one can only expect to use such a camera as an alternative to what he would normally do with a Dslr only hoping to improve (?) on the IQ at some extra expense....

It's the same story with Hasselblad really when they decided to "close" the H system and even more after they decided against the CF "free to everyone" backs... They appeared to most photographers as an enemy into "providing solutions" as if creative photographer's needs where not of their concern... I just hope they'll rethink their decisions before its too late, because the more DSLRs improve, the less room will exist for the upper steps in the ladder and that is not my opinion... it is common sense!

[michael]

It simply is what it is. The Leica S and Pentax 645 are all-in-one cameras. Some benefits, some downsides.

What till Photokina. There will be some interesting alternatives!.

M

[ecarmel]

I have recently purchased the Pentax 645z camera and the 45-85mm zoom, 150-300mm zoom, still waiting for the 28-45 Zoom to be released. I am thrilled with the output of this camera and the cmos sensor. I have the Hasselblad H5D 50 and it actually exceeds the performance of that camera / lens combo for landscape work. I was going to upgrade to the H5D 50C (I need the higher iso capability) but the price for even an upgrade was so much higher than the 645Z with lenses, so that decision was easy. The main advantage of this camera over the D810 (I have a D800) is that with the 645Z I can make much larger prints - more pixels equals exponentially better enlargement ability. I regularly do prints 6 feet to 10 feet in size and need the MF resolution. This is not just my blind opinion but is from my 15 years of making art prints and pixel peeping every file and print.  If you just shoot for web or smaller prints then why bother with the expense and hassle of MF bodies and lenses? This new Pentax 645z is a game changer for MF at this price point. Michael I am pleased to hear you are also getting one, I look forward to hearing more of your impressions on this system and your opinion on the lenses.

Elizabeth Carmel
www.ElizabethCarmel.com

[eronald]

This is becoming a landslide vote of approval for the Pentax.

Who knows, P and H might get the message and lower body prices; clearly the lens-lock in is not going to do it for them when you can get a full set of lenses with the Pentax for the price of a P or H body alone.

I think that the  used resale value of the Hasselblad and Phase One low end solutions has effectively been halved.

Edmund

[Paul2660]

I actually purchased both the 35mm A and the FA for use on my 645D and tested them thoroughly. Even at optimum apertures (around f11) the 35 A (manual focus) lens was the best no question. The 35mm FA (at least the one I had) never had sharp corners at any aperture. In the extreme corners it was extremely noticeable (the reduced sharpness). It was odd but at closer focus distances (10 feet) it performed much better but since I wanted it for landscapes the performance at infinity focus was very important to me so the 35mm A won easily. In fact I still have it here. I tried to sell it for a while but no one snatched it even at $400. I still have the 120mm A and the 45-85mm FA. (again, put em up for sale, ebay and FM and no one...). Both lenses are also really good at f11 which is basically my mostly used aperture for landscapes.

Sadly the 35mm FA lenses made in Vietnam had a pretty wide sample variation. Mine was excellent as I was shifting it 18mm per side on the Zork.   Not sure where the new ones will be made.

Paul

[Ken R]

It simply is what it is. The Leica S and Pentax 645 are all-in-one cameras. Some benefits, some downsides.

What till Photokina. There will be some interesting alternatives!.

M

Exactly.

Although The Leica S/S2 has factory adapters available to use Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Pentax 67, Hasselblad H and Contax 645 lenses that makes it very versatile in regards to lens selection. Gotta give it to Leica for making the adapters.

Can't wait for photokina.

[leeonmaui]

Aloha,

Michael I am more than pleased with your review of the Pentax.
I had my concerns that you would find fault with the camera, and not take it seriously.
I have been using my 645D  for three years and when thing go well, and they often do:
"Angels sing"
Pentax gets very little respect in the medium format arena now days

Now to hear you are purchasing a system really pleases me,
Not only because I know you will thoroughly enjoy it, but it really sends a positive message about the gear.
As many people, myself included, have a good deal of respect to what you say. 

[Radu Arama]

Expect the new Pentax software for tethering end of September.

Radu

[Manoli]

Expect the new Pentax software for tethering end of September.

Source ?