Topic: Printing on Metal? (Read 11346 times)

uintaangler · « **on:** March 30, 2014, 01:17:49 am »

I have seen some stunning Landscape images in galleries that are printed on metal and I am wondering how the heck can somebody make a print on metal?
Is this done with special printers or can anybody make a metal print using a high-end wide format printer?
Thanks.

mahleu · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2014, 06:17:41 am »

I have a friend who does this. I haven't got around to quizzing him on the process but it looks very good. Apparently archival ink on aluminium: http://www.gregorrohrig.com/aluminium

mcpix · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2014, 11:24:14 am »

Scroll down a bit and you'll see a couple of long threads about this.

Although some people do print directly on metal, most of the prints are made with dye sublimation inks. You replace your regular ink set with dye sub inks and then hot press the image onto the metal. I'm currently converting an Epson 4880 for this purpose.

The expensive part of this process isn't the printer, it's the heat press. Large heat presses are around $10,000.

brinked · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2014, 03:19:54 pm »

The most common method of "printing" on metal is actually a 2 step process. The image is first printed using special inks call sublimation dye inks. The image is printed on a special type of paper known as heat transfer paper. Once the image is printed on this paper, the paper is applied to a sheet of metal that has a polyester coating on it that allows the ink to absorb into the metal substrate using a heat press at around 360 - 400 degrees fahrenheit.

uintaangler · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2014, 04:39:54 pm »

So it sounds to me that if I want to see one of my images printed on metal - I'll be sending it out to a specialty printer.
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Bob

Some Guy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2014, 05:25:50 pm »

Bay Photo (West Coast near Santa Cruz, CA) is the one I send stuff too for metals. They even frame them up for you a lot cheaper than local framers do too. Their shipping carton is pretty nice too with the framed ones. You do need to use their ROES online (Downloadable software) to send them the images.

SG

brinked · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2014, 05:30:14 pm »

Bob I own a metal printing lab here in South Florida. If you want I can send you one free of charge. Just pm me your address and a link to your file.

Will

uintaangler · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2014, 09:26:43 pm »

Will,
The 12 x 18 arrived today and it looks great!
Thanks,
Bob

Wayne Fox · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2014, 03:51:50 pm »

Quote from: mahleu on March 30, 2014, 06:17:41 am

I have a friend who does this. I haven't got around to quizzing him on the process but it looks very good. Apparently archival ink on aluminium: http://www.gregorrohrig.com/aluminium

Not sure dye sub inks for this process can be labeled “archival”. They are not the same inks, and longevity, while better than silver halide processes, are not long lasting in the same sense that we normally rate current pigment inkjet processes.

bgphoto · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2014, 06:15:27 pm »

I also have a lab that prints on metal and I will tell you that it is not as easy as you might think. I personally have not been able to use a canned profile from any of the distributors and the metal manufacture is not handing out profiles either. The biggest issue is whether the company printing can reproduce the colors you are expecting, with the hardest colors to reproduce being yellows and greens.

Something to keep in mind if you are printing to the clear coated metal or having somebody produce a print for you on the clear metal is not to expect a high level of saturation. The aluminum reflecting through the ink saps a lot of the saturation out of the print.

brinked · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2014, 12:17:31 pm »

bgphoto. Where are you getting your ink from? I know sawgrass does provide profiles when you order from them.

Your are spot on about the clear aluminum. Also, taking a picture of it is impossible for me. Its way too reflective. Its something that your customer needs to know what they are ordering otherwise I can see some being disappointed.

bgphoto · « **Reply #11 on:** April 15, 2014, 12:51:31 pm »

I printing on an Epson 9800 with JTech ink.

Any company that is doing large format Aluminum has there own profiles built because they are generally using a commercial grade RIP instead of the Sawgrass Power Driver.

Setting up to print on metal has been very rewarding and at times very challenging.

Ben

Some Guy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:06:42 pm »

Quote from: bgphoto on April 13, 2014, 06:15:27 pm

.... The biggest issue is whether the company printing can reproduce the colors you are expecting, with the hardest colors to reproduce being yellows and greens.

I find this true coming from BayPhoto who uses the Chromalux dye-transfer method (I believe?). Yellowish/orange skin tones can be a bit problematic and maybe due to the CMYK inkset used in the dye-transfer?

I wasn't keen on the pure aluminum showing through as it did appear to desaturate the image as mentioned elsewhere. The Gloss White seems to be best for the process (They do 4 different metal surfaces: Two satins, and two whites. Only difference is the white sub-layer or not.

Might be able to get a wider and better gamut if one were to print directly on the gloss white pre-prepped metal from a 8-12 ink printer, but that is an expensive plate to try too.

SG

bgphoto · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:22:59 pm »

I went from a straight cmyk inkset to a cmky plus light inks and it improved my output tremendously. I can for certain say that my skin tones are pretty good. The key is to remember this metal has a slight warm tone in the white coating. If you compare it to an Epson Premium Luster paper you will see the slight warmth in the coating.

I also have found that the best prints come from the Glossy White product. People just find the image to have a look of no other medium on the market right now. Colors pop off the surface and the print almost looks three dimensional.

I don't think printing directly on the metal would give the same result. I have seen direct printed metal and it just does not have the depth or pop. Almost everyone who sees the white gloss prints have the same reaction: WOW!

Ben

shadowblade · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:38:59 pm »

Quote from: bgphoto on April 15, 2014, 01:22:59 pm

I went from a straight cmyk inkset to a cmky plus light inks and it improved my output tremendously. I can for certain say that my skin tones are pretty good. The key is to remember this metal has a slight warm tone in the white coating. If you compare it to an Epson Premium Luster paper you will see the slight warmth in the coating.

I also have found that the best prints come from the Glossy White product. People just find the image to have a look of no other medium on the market right now. Colors pop off the surface and the print almost looks three dimensional.

I don't think printing directly on the metal would give the same result. I have seen direct printed metal and it just does not have the depth or pop. Almost everyone who sees the white gloss prints have the same reaction: WOW!

Ben

Have you tried printing directly on metal (or any other ultra-smooth surface), then coating it with a high-gloss coating? If coated properly (e.g. with polyurethane-based car lacquer) it should be just as glossy as a dye-sub print, with a better colour gamut.

It's not the metal that gives metal prints their appearance - it's the ultra-smooth surface and the high gloss finish.

bgphoto · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2014, 02:14:05 pm »

I can't say that I have tried a direct print and then coating with any form of car lacquer. It seems that the problem with the lacquer would be consistency, drying time and fumes. Of course dye sublimation has fumes but I don't think they would be anything like lacquer.

I may be off base because I have not ever used lacquer.

One other point, in order to print directly on a metal surface you would require either a white coating before printing or a printer that has white ink, unless you are looking for a metal look like the clear that we do.

Finally, as far as I know a profile cannot be properly created for the clear metal.

Ben

shadowblade · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2014, 02:21:30 pm »

Quote from: bgphoto on April 15, 2014, 02:14:05 pm

I can't say that I have tried a direct print and then coating with any form of car lacquer. It seems that the problem with the lacquer would be consistency, drying time and fumes. Of course dye sublimation has fumes but I don't think they would be anything like lacquer.

I may be off base because I have not ever used lacquer.

One other point, in order to print directly on a metal surface you would require either a white coating before printing or a printer that has white ink, unless you are looking for a metal look like the clear that we do.

Finally, as far as I know a profile cannot be properly created for the clear metal.

Ben

Or you could use a sheet of white 'anodised' aluminium or titanium as the base (not really 'anodised', but a different process that produces the same kind of surface, since it's not actually possible to achieve white by anodising).

Scott Martin · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2014, 08:30:59 pm »

Quote from: uintaangler on March 30, 2014, 01:17:49 am

I am wondering how the heck can somebody make a print on metal?

I just posted a blog post with a short video that shows a UV Curable printer printing on white aluminum dibond you might find interesting. http://www.on-sight.com/what-my-days-look-like-as-a-consultant/

dgberg · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2014, 07:14:15 am »

Quote from: bgphoto on April 15, 2014, 02:14:05 pm

One other point, in order to print directly on a metal surface you would require either a white coating before printing or a printer that has white ink, unless you are looking for a metal look like the clear that we do.

Ben

Booksmart has a half dozen different metal finishes white being one of them.
You can also coat your own metal with Inkaids Iridescent gloss pre coat colors, the pearl being my favorite.
Be careful of your solvent topcoat or you will end up with a crackled finish like this.
Unless the ink is absolutely dry that is what can happen. Black inks are the slowest to dry and can take 2 to 3 days before they are really dry to topcoat.

brinked · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2014, 01:52:18 pm »

When I first got into this industry I wanted to have the absolute best setup for producing the highest quality metal prints.

I knew my 2 options were either a sublimation setup or a UV flatbed printer.

What I did was I ordered metal prints from all the top online companies that offer sublimation prints and UV Flatbed prints. I honestly wanted to go with the flatbed option and was ready to invest close to $200k on one.

I liked the ability to be able to print on just about any surface and it didnt require a special coating. Where with sublimation, the metal needs to have a polyester based coating to absorb the ink.

When I received the prints, the sublimation metal prints were by far better than the UV printed prints. I ordered both clear finish and white gloss finish from a half dozen companies in total.

There is a reason why the top metal print companies all use sublimation for their prints. The results are superior.

If you're going to get into a business you owe it to yourself to do it the right way.

The very first method I read about was the booksmart blanks and using inkaid. I discovered that from finding LL in my google searches and from what I read on here, its extremely difficult, time consuming and expensive to go down that path. I didnt try it myself, but based on what I read up on these very forums, the inkaid option just doesnt cut it for professional metal prints.

Author Topic: Printing on Metal? (Read 11346 times)