C1PRO 7.2 and TIFF Recognition

[Ronald Nyein Zaw Tan]

Good morning and salutations.

I typically do not catalog my 16-Bit layered TIFFs with the C1PRO software. I recently found out that it doesn't recognize TIFFs saved in the Interweaved order. All right. So I went back and automated a process with Photoshop CS6 to re-save ALL my TIFFs into Interweaved AND using both Zip compressions on the image and the layer information. Now, I discovered that C1PRO7.2 has some sort of size limitation on the TIFF files. I see this, because not all my TIFFs appear with I invoke the "Import Images" command from the File menu.

Why is that?

I know TIFF was the invention of Adobe and Adobe gave the TIFF information open-sourced, right? Why can't C1PRO7.2 see my TIFFs greater than 1 GB while ALL my TIFFs (even the humongous ones at 4 GB) are easily seen my Lightroom 5.3?!?!

Why do I care now?

Think about it: if C1PRO7 can see ALL my TIFFs, I could remain in the C1PRO interface and perform the resizing and even create diptychs via the Print inside of C1PRO.

[Paul2660]

My first pass would be that C1 was never intended for large processed tiff files, especially 4GB ones.  CC and CS6 have enough problems with these, but I always save larger than 2GB as PSB.  I also don't know of any to assign C1 exactly how much ram it can use as you can in all 64 bit versions of CS and CC.  or older versions as long as they are 64 Bit.  If these tiffs are 16bit, you will need a lot ram just to load them and work them.

I have never printed from C1, but I also am not sure that it's as robust as LR, or CC or Qimage etc. as all of these have specific print engines and years of development. 

C1 on the other excels in raw conversion, tethering, and depending if like it cataloging. 

Paul

[digitaldog]

I know TIFF was the invention of Adobe and Adobe gave the TIFF information open-sourced, right? Why can't C1PRO7.2 see my TIFFs greater than 1 GB while ALL my TIFFs (even the humongous ones at 4 GB) are easily seen my Lightroom 5.3?!?!

TIFF came from Aldus which Adobe purchased but yes, they (Adobe) control the format. IF the data is bigger than 4 gigs OR more than 30,000 pixels, TIFF isn't going to fly, you'll need PSB. However, IF you've got a good old TIFF under those restrictions and a software company can't deal with it, they need to update their software to do so. As you point out, the spec is out there, there is no fee to use TIFF. C1PRO engineers need to fix the issue.

[nik]

It doesn't seem to recognize B&W / Greyscale TIFFs either, regardless of size, not sure if it's interwoven or not. Converting to RGB in PS and re-saving seems to resolve the issue. They need to fix this if photographers are expecting to use C1 for cataloging their entire libraries.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It doesn't seem to recognize B&W / Greyscale TIFFs either, regardless of size, not sure if it's interwoven or not. Converting to RGB in PS and re-saving seems to resolve the issue.

Hi,

While I agree that better support for some of the many data/image types a TIFF can represent would be helpful, I do have some concerns about the limitations that a single channel TIFF imposes on a photographer. First of all it robs the photographer from the opportunity to change tonality based on color (e.g. applying a Red filter afterwards), just like an achromatic version of a camera does. It also prevents toning (e.g. Quad-toning) of the output. Having said that, there should be a possibility to read such dumbed down files, and optionally open them as RGB for said toning.

They need to fix this if photographers are expecting to use C1 for cataloging their entire libraries.

Yes, for cataloging it would certainly make sense.

Cheers,
Bart

[Ronald Nyein Zaw Tan]

Thank you for agreeing with me, that my concern was reasonable and sound. Please note that I am an ardent fan and supporter of the company. Eventhough I cannot justify the purchase of their "bread-and-butter" MFDB system, I did exhibit my satisfaction by upgrading to MediaPRO, when it came out—despite that fact that when P1 acquired Expression Media 2 (EM2) from Microsoft, their PRO users were given complimentary licenses to EM2. I love C1PRO software and the dedicated staff in support division.

My frustration has been described and I am glad that a few recognizes and acknowledge the practicality. It wasn't like I am asking for an "Annie Leibovitz" button in C1PRO. That's absurd and nonsensical.

When C1PRO7 came out, the besides its new rendering engine, the cataloging was a major bulleted selling point! OK . . . but they didn't mention that the TIFFs are limited to 1.0 GB. So, for reason of my workflow, my zipped TIFF exceeds the 1.0 limit because it was a composite file for advertising images, that TIFF would never been "seen/rendered" in either of the Catalog of Session workflow. I am not being bitter towards the company. If C1PRO8 is announced tomorrow, I will upgrade, just to show my support and appreciation towards the product! I am expressing the reasonable statements because I wanted to see the software STRONGER and BETTER.

I reported to P1 Tech Drew wrote me and told me that my concern has been forwarded for consideration. To anyone who thinks the 1.0 GB limit should be lifted so that ALL of our TIFF files can be rendered (seen) in the C1PRO7+ catalog, won't you please submit a vote for the request?

[Paul2660]

I thought about this for a while, and you may have a point and C1 will address it.  However, I personally would never want C1 to handle large tiffs, over 1GB (not sure if you have layers or just huge resolution files).  Note, I did discover that you can save 2GB or large tiff files, with layers from CC or CS, just never had tried it always used PSB format.

1.  If you have layers, then C1 will never do the files justice.  I realize that most people keep a layered file as psd, but I wasn't sure if you were using the tiff extension with layers or not.  I often do.
2.  If you don't have layers and just huge resolution files, still not sure you can expect C1 to work with these.  C1 to me was always meant to work with a raw workflow, i.e. catalog all raw files, or work with raw files in a session mode.  To ask C1 to import a 4GB tiff, (still not sure how you are
     saving this as I thought anything over 2GB had to be psb at least in CC or CS).  But still that is a huge file and not what C1 was designed around.  
3.  I believe you mentioned printing, in the first post, I would never use C1 for printing, it's not a strong point of the software, and again it was never designed as a print engine.  The fact that C1 can print, to me is moot, as it's just not what C1 was tasked for.  You don't see Phase One pushing
    printing with C1 either.  

You feel you made the investment in the software for it do everything, but I don't feel it was ever meant to do that.  Capture One started out as a raw conversion software and over the years has grown, to add many other features, but working with tiff files created by other software solutions, CC, LR etc. I don't feel is a high priority.  

Phase One may change the catalog to handle the larger tiff files, however again, based on issues that exist with the current catalog setup, not sure I would even want to risk such large files.  (read back in this forum or the Phase One forum on posts concerning issues with cataloging in C1)

Just another viewpoint.

Paul

[Another Paul]

I think Ronald, the O.P., makes very good points. Coincidentally I just made the same discovery with C1. The reply to my support request stated that support of larger files would be reviewed. Hopefully they will decide to take action.

The lack of large file support - even in a fully referenced catalog - is a real problem because the C1 marketing implies that C1 includes a general cataloging solution ("...comprehensive digital asset management and powerful virtual organization...", "A catalog contains all the information needed to find and display any images added to the catalog including metadata and even what visual adjustments.").

The secret (non advertised) file size limit makes the C1 catalog not general, forcing one to use another catalog solution. This is a bit sneaky of the C1 folks in my opinion!

I find that C1 works very well for my RAWs and minimally processed files. However some of my larger processed images (layered TIFs) do not show up, sometimes not even the flattened files for large prints. This means you can not even use C1 for captioning because the files simply don’t show up in the catalog!  I don’t care about editing performance of large files (the files could even be non-editable), but I would at least like to know that the files exist!

-- Another Paul

[Ronald Nyein Zaw Tan]

UPDATE

I managed to manually sort my 16-Bit TIFFs into "Processed" and "Output" folder, where "Output" contains sizes approaching 500.0 MB and "Processed" contains sizes exceeding 500 MB. I am now finding that my previously stated limit of 1000 MB (1.0 GB) was incorrect.

All of my 16-Bit Tiffs are saved with Zip compression, Interleaved, and PC Byte Order.

I am frustrated at the limit, because my "Processed" folder contain important client work (composites) and other personal works, where retaining layer information is paramount. Since C1PRO 7.2.2 can't catalog them because they exceed 500 MB, I'd have to leave the C1PRO interface and work in Bridge for exporting into other formats. C1PRO interface is workflow enhancing because the process recipe has formats like the PNG that I could bulk-export my images as PNGs. Not only going to PNG from TIF, but being able to batch-convert in C1PRO is fast and convenient.

Right now, let's say you want to export 10 TIFFs into PNGs. If these 10 TIFFs are cataloged in C1PRO, no problem. Click to select all ten and export. Done.

If those 10 TIFFs aren't cataloged because of the 500 MB limit, I'd have to open each one in PS, flatten, convert to PNG, and save. Repeat 10 times.

The image process in PS don't have the PNG save option. I tried making an action, but don't work as I'd liked.