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Author Topic: NEC PA242W and print matching  (Read 6994 times)

SeanLa

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NEC PA242W and print matching
« on: March 15, 2014, 10:38:12 pm »

I had read that this display was near perfect from the factory and thought I could put off SVII and i1 Display Pro purchase for a bit.

My prints (Epson 3880) appear desaturated relative to the monitor in it's Adobe RGB mode. It's not even close.
Print result is the same for both Canson Baryta Photog. and Epson Premium Luster.

Has anyone had this experience with this monitor and found the SVII software resulting in a good print to display match that they could not get initially?

I've printed quite a bit with this printer without issue using other monitors.
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Tony Jay

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 05:35:33 am »

Hi Sean welcome to LuLa.

There are a lot of potential gotcha's that can cause issues:
1. You do need to calibrate and profile your printer.
2. Most people do not adjust the luminance of the monitor appropriately - darker and flatter images result.
3. Are you softproofing - every paper has a Dmax that is much less than a monitor i.e. it cannot reflect the dynamic range of the projected image. almost every image needs a tweak in contrast prior to printing and some images need a lot more work in softproofing.

Your post doesn't give much detail so feel free to fill in the blanks.

Tony Jay
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:53:09 am by Tony Jay »
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elolaugesen

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 12:59:29 pm »

If you make a lot of changes in soft-proofing?   What happens the when you change paper?..   

Elo
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SeanLa

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 02:23:05 pm »

Thanks Tony and elolaugesen.

Have used this printer prior to the NEC PA242W display very effectively.

@Tony

1. I'm using the canned profiles, Canson and Epson for the respective papers/printer. I found them to be very good and matched the display in the past.

2. Display lum is adj down to 105 cd/m2.
3. Softproofing in PS with paper simulation. Image is adj during softproofing in PS, file printed from LR.

Interested to hear if people found that SpectraView II software made the difference with this PA242W or a PA241W display in terms of print matching the display.

@elolaugesen - changed paper and see same result; desaturated.
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Mac Mahon

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 02:40:48 pm »

Hi SeanLa

I haven't done the A-B test you asked for:  I used SV s/w and the i1DisplayPro on my PA241W right from the start.  I get what I consider to be an excellent match with my 3880 prints.  The reputation of the NEC/Spectraview system was what drew me to it. It never occurred to me to use the monitor without using SV to profile it.

FWIW

Tim
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SeanLa

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 03:50:36 pm »

Thanks Tim.

I'll post here whether SVII/i1Display Pro makes up the difference with this PA242W.
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Rob Whitehead

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 09:23:32 am »

I use the nec 27 inch, with the spectraview software and idisplay everything is of course automated so you shouldn't need to worry about luminance etc
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Carpe lucem

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 10:54:10 am »

I had read that this display was near perfect from the factory and thought I could put off SVII and i1 Display Pro purchase for a bit.
My prints (Epson 3880) appear desaturated relative to the monitor in it's Adobe RGB mode. It's not even close.

It's all about setting the correct calibration targets for a visual match: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml
You need the software to do this precisely. You can try Multiprofiler first and might hit a match, if not, it's software and instrument time.
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Jason DiMichele

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 03:55:36 pm »

I use the nec 27 inch, with the spectraview software and idisplay everything is of course automated so you shouldn't need to worry about luminance etc

Hi Rob,

You are correct that good profiling software (with supported displays) will automatically adjust the luminance automatically but you still need to tell the software which luminance value you want it set to calibrate to for your editing/viewing environment.

Cheers,
Jay
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Jason DiMichele
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Rob Whitehead

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2014, 01:15:01 pm »

From memory, you choose a setting at the start of setup to cover luminance - there's a generic recommended level for photography.

Apart from that though, the attraction of the nec system is that all further calibration is automatic ie. no need to change any settings on the monitor manually.
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Carpe lucem

Garnick

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2014, 02:51:23 pm »

From memory, you choose a setting at the start of setup to cover luminance - there's a generic recommended level for photography.

Apart from that though, the attraction of the nec system is that all further calibration is automatic ie. no need to change any settings on the monitor manually.

Hi Rob,
The only issue I have with your post is the word "automatic", since you still have to open the software, set up the hardware and start the calibration.  I assume what you mean is that the previous calibration "settings" will be displayed, so it's not necessary to do all of that each time.  I usually run two calibrations each time, one at 5500K and another at 6500K.  5500K is used for printing and 6500K for viewing new files when necessary to see if they have been properly managed.  I often use this to show customers how badly their display is set up, usually resulting in dark images due to a high Lum Level.  I calibrate at 100cd/m2 and it's a good level for my printing workflow.  I have older NEC 2690, a PA241 and a PA 271, all of which are calibrated.  I also use the "lock out" setting in SV so that the display cannot be adjusted with the OSD.  Generally I'm the only one using the display, but I take no chances.  Since I do calibrate I of course have no use for the MultiProfiler. 

Gary   
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Jason DiMichele

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 04:16:46 pm »

From memory, you choose a setting at the start of setup to cover luminance - there's a generic recommended level for photography.

Apart from that though, the attraction of the nec system is that all further calibration is automatic ie. no need to change any settings on the monitor manually.

Hi Rob,

I think by default in the SpectraView II software is 140 cd/m2 for the recommended photo editing luminance. There are some that calibrate to this level and a lot that don't. The setting is ultimately determined by how bright your environment/viewing light is.

I do agree that the NEC system is wonderful. :)

Cheers,
Jay
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Jason DiMichele
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Jason DiMichele

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 04:23:25 pm »

I usually run two calibrations each time, one at 5500K and another at 6500K.  5500K is used for printing and 6500K for viewing new files when necessary to see if they have been properly managed. 

I also use the "lock out" setting in SV so that the display cannot be adjusted with the OSD.  Generally I'm the only one using the display, but I take no chances.  Since I do calibrate I of course have no use for the MultiProfiler. 

Gary


Gary,

Do you also create calibrations for the various papers you are using via the custom white target or just using the 5,500 (which from what I gather a lot of people prefer as a more accurate paper white)? Since it's so convenient to switch calibrations on the fly, it really can't hurt to create them since it's relatively quick to do. However, I also create calibrations with different contrast ratios for matte vs glossy so I suppose they all add up and recalibration time increases a little.

And yes. It's amazing what settings can get changed without notice during late night post processing or ummmm perhaps a cluttered desk? :)

Cheers,
Jay
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Jason DiMichele
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D Fosse

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 05:14:17 pm »

Just make sure that if you change calibration, you have to quit and relaunch Photoshop / Lightroom. They need to load the correct profile at startup, the one that corresponds to the calibration targets. They won't do it on the fly.
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Jason DiMichele

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 06:21:20 pm »

Just make sure that if you change calibration, you have to quit and relaunch Photoshop / Lightroom. They need to load the correct profile at startup, the one that corresponds to the calibration targets. They won't do it on the fly.

Hey D,

Thanks for that tip, good to know! :)

Cheers,
Jay
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Jason DiMichele
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Alan Klein

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 12:22:27 am »

I just installed a NEC PA242W and ran the SVII automatically to set up sRGB.  It shows Maximum for Intensity; color gamut sRGB.    I then switched to Photo Editing thinking that was Adobe RGB.  It calibrated it to 140cd/m2 Specific setting.  However, the color gamut says Native (Full) and the selection called Adobe RGB was not selected.

1.  How do I set up for Adobe RGB?
2. What's my next step in getting to start printing?  I have a Canon ip4600 inkjet.  Frankly, I have no idea what's my next move.
3. Ambient measurement:  it's recommended that it be around a certain amount.  You can use the reverse cover on the puck to measure it?   Where should it be when you edit your picture so they print OK, not light or dark?  what about colors?
4. Can anyone recommend a link, or book, anything, that tells you what to do? Simply?

Tony Jay

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 02:52:16 am »

Alan, if you select Photo Editing then what you want, and get, is the full native gamut that the monitor is capable of.
As far as I am aware (I use NEC monitors and Spectraview software) while the gamut of these monitors approach the gamut of the AdobeRGB colourspace it is not identical to it.
As for the luminance set at 140 cd/m2 that is a factory default and may or may not be the right luminance for your editing environment.
My Luminance is set to 95 cd/m2 but my environment is a bit gloomy.
In general the biggest beginner printers mistake I know of is to have the luminance set way too high.

Try Andrew Rodney's website for lots of information about colour management.
(Use his name as a Google search term.)
Also this site is very useful as well: http://www.imagescience.com.au/pages/Colour-Management.html

Tony Jay
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Alan Klein

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 10:21:23 am »

Tony:  ok thanks.  I read some of the linked site's papers.  So if I understand this correctly, I should calibrate the colors and contrast and lighting based on the paper and printer I intend to use.

1.  Is there a place I can get recommended settings for my Epson ip4600printer?  Do you plug in its ICC in Lightroom LR5?

2. Which gamut should I select in SV2 when I edit the photo in LR5 for printing?

3. Should I use sRGB gamut when adjusting for posting on the internet?

4.  Is there a easy way of adjusting for both printing and internet posting?  Or do you have to start from scratch with different luminance settings? 

digitaldog

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 11:03:38 am »

1. Beats me, I don't use that printer. You need to setup the driver as you would in Photoshop or elsewhere for color management.
2. The largest gamut (native).
3. Soft proof to sRGB in LR, no need to futz with the display.
4. Yes, build more than one calibration target and switch when you need to.

Also, RTFM it's pretty good  ;D
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Alan Klein

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Re: NEC PA242W and print matching
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 12:28:14 pm »

Andrew:  I don't understand 3 and 4; they seem contradictory.  3. says soft proof  to sRGB in LR, forget the display. But 4 says I should use a different calibration target.  I'm confused.
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