Leica Announces S-System Trade Up Program

[JV]

http://leicastoremiami.com/blogs/news-events/12712201-leica-announces-s-system-trade-up-program

[eronald]

http://leicastoremiami.com/blogs/news-events/12712201-leica-announces-s-system-trade-up-program

I think the next S will be announced at Photokina and have an upsized sensor like the M (made by CMOSIS, ex-Fill-factory), at this point they should be able to clone the M process for the electronics. At its heart, the next S will be a simpler camera.

And for all I know it might end up cheaper than both the Phase and the Hassy!

Anyway I'll be delighted to buy the current CCD model when those get really cheap

Edmund

[JV]

I think the next S will have the same sensor as the M (made by CMOSIS, ex-Fill-factory), and might even be reasonably priced because at this point they should be able to clone the M process. At its heart, the next S will be a simpler camera.

And I'll be delighted to buy an obsolete CCD model when they get really cheap

Edmund

It indeed probably means that the new S is around the corner and will be announced at Photokina.

I see this as similar to the recent Leaf Credo promotion.  About the same amount as well.

[eronald]

It indeed probably means that the new S is around the corner and will be announced at Photokina.

I see this as similar to the recent Leaf Credo promotion.  About the same amount as well.

I think at some point Leica will get serious traction in the MF market - they have a good dealer network for support, a single model so people don't get confused, a decent lens range nowadays, robustness, and with the added low-light capabilities of CMOS this is getting close to what it looks like: a big SLR.

Edmund

[synn]

I think the next S will be announced at Photokina and have an upsized sensor like the M (made by CMOSIS, ex-Fill-factory), at this point they should be able to clone the M process for the electronics. At its heart, the next S will be a simpler camera.

And for all I know it might end up cheaper than both the Phase and the Hassy!

Leica's Point n Shoots and superzooms, which are simple CMOS Panasonics at heart, cost more than several big boy cameras.
Of all the people to play the value card, Leica would be my last choice.

[eronald]

Leica's Point n Shoots and superzooms, which are simple CMOS Panasonics at heart, cost more than several big boy cameras.
Of all the people to play the value card, Leica would be my last choice.

Panasonic seem to be getting better and better - the latest sensor Pana made is the one in the OM-1.

Apart from that, I'm as amazed as you at the revival of the "Leicaflex". As you state, the compacts are rebadged and repriced Pana, the M is an expensive and somewhat temperamental nostalgia-special, but the most expensive product the brand sells seems to be well engineered and almost decently priced - and it is even being promoted with "trade-ins". Who would have thought?

BTW, my friend Norman Koren who makes Imatest came to Paris and he had one of the Panasonic branded Panasonics. If anyone knows cameras technically it is Norman, obviously. So, I tried it and found it was really good for indoors amateur use. Decent wide-angle with decent performance, and good Jpeg tone-mapping: Groups of people look good.

Edmund

[BobDavid]

The Panasonic Oly sensors are awesome. Pixel for pixel, the Olympus EM1 is the best camera I've used. And those fast primes...

[eronald]

The Panasonic Oly sensors are awesome. Pixel for pixel, the Olympus EM1 is the best camera I've used. And those fast primes...

Yes, Michael seems to love his - Cooter loves his.
I think Pana work best when they have a demanding customer

Edmund

[bcooter]

Panasonic seem to be getting better and better - the latest sensor Pana made is the one in the OM-1.

Panasonic makes some killer equipment, the gh3 and i'm sure the gh4.

In regards to the em-1 that uses the pana sensor vs. the em-5 that uses the sony sensor, it may or may not be the sensor, but I've shot those camera side by side a lot and the em-1 is 10 times the camera of the em-5 but the look of the em-5 is just beautiful.

I hate this term, but the em-5 is film like and the em-1 a little more technical.

We even tested them next to the p30+ and the Leica S2 with flash and the em-1 held up amazingly well in detial, though the em-5 still was the prettier file.

But don't knock the pansonic gh3 camera because it may be non pretty as far as cameras go, but it's the most intuitive electronic camera made, the menu is a snap, the function buttons are very easy, very smart and it shoots a hell of a video file.

IMO

BC

[peterv]

Edmund, do you know which model Panasonic your friend brought with him?

BTW, I hear the new PanaLeica 42,5 mm is worth every penny.

[EricWHiss]

I think the next S will be announced at Photokina and have an upsized sensor like the M (made by CMOSIS, ex-Fill-factory), at this point they should be able to clone the M process for the electronics. At its heart, the next S will be a simpler camera.

And for all I know it might end up cheaper than both the Phase and the Hassy!

Anyway I'll be delighted to buy the current CCD model when those get really cheap

Edmund

I thought Leica locked into the sensor size with the body design and lens coverage - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't expect a larger sensor in their cameras.
And a less expensive body would be welcome, and help offset the cost of the lenses. 

[Rob C]

I thought Leica locked into the sensor size with the body design and lens coverage - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't expect a larger sensor in their cameras.
And a less expensive body would be welcome, and help offset the cost of the lenses. 

Echoes the dream of a 'sensibly priced' digital M body.

Do you know if it's possible to buy these with a pensioner's discount - you know, like bus passes?

;-)

Rob C

[Telecaster]

I thought Leica locked into the sensor size with the body design and lens coverage - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't expect a larger sensor in their cameras.

I think Edmund means an up-sized version of the Leica M sensor. Same tech & process but S sized: 45x30mm.

-Dave-

[Kolor-Pikker]

I thought Leica locked into the sensor size with the body design and lens coverage - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't expect a larger sensor in their cameras.
And a less expensive body would be welcome, and help offset the cost of the lenses. 

Yes, the sensor size is locked in, it was mentioned in an article written some time ago and that the image circle of the S lenses is just large enough to cover it.

Larger format sizes aren't as important for sheer performance like it was for film, unless we had technological parity between sensors of different sizes, but by going with a smaller sensor Leica can at least get into the CMOS game faster.

[eronald]

I think Edmund means an up-sized version of the Leica M sensor. Same tech & process but S sized: 45x30mm.

-Dave-

Yes Cmosis 45x30.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't know. A Sony sensor may make more sense. I guess that Leica developed it's own sensor to meet the demands of the Leica M lenses, with large beam tilt. The S2 is probably less demanding, so they may do better with an industry standard part.

The fact that Leica makes little noise about new sensors and their acquirement of Sinar may indicate that they go into the other direction, it would make sense, too.

Best regards
Erik

Yes Cmosis 45x30.

[BJL]

A Sony sensor may make more sense. I guess that Leica developed it's own sensor to meet the demands of the Leica M lenses, with large beam tilt. The S2 is probably less demanding, so they may do better with an industry standard part.

A Sony sensor would probably make more sense if Sony makes one in the format that Leica wants.  From what I have seen of the specs of CMOSIS senses on its website, it trails Sony significantly in sensor noise and thus in dynamic range and low-light performance, so I agree that Leica went to CMOSIS solely because it was willing to make a sensor meeting the special needs of the M240 while Sony was not.

But I doubt that Sony is wiling to make a 45x30mm sensor just for Leica, and I also doubt that Leica would accept the change to the 4:3 shape (44x33mm or whatever) that the rest of the DMF industry prefers.  So it is likely to be CMOSIS again.  Or it could be an updated Truesense (Kodak) sensor, but it seems that Truesense is no longer interested in the DMF photographic market; the last Kodak/Truesense sensors suitable for DMF was the 50MP 49x37mm KAF-50100 announced in July 2008.

[Chairman Bill]

The Leica S is the sort of camera that makes me wish I was a dentist

[eronald]

The Leica S is the sort of camera that makes me wish I was a dentist

You can still co back to college!

Edmund

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

The Leica S is the sort of camera that makes me wish I was a dentist

Actually the suicide rate amongst dentists is quite high, possibly due to the huge amount of debt they go into when opening their office.

Cheers
~Chris