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Author Topic: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...  (Read 3960 times)

Theodoros

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Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« on: March 07, 2014, 05:14:23 pm »

Other than the luck of real WA lenses to cope with "shrunk" image areas, are the lenses comparable to "digital" LF lenses for resolution? Is the camera better than an LF alternative for higher resolution backs, since lens to image area distance is larger? How does the camera performs with a scanning back attached? If one doesn't need wider than 50mm, nor needs more than 8mm of movements, how does it compare against a 6x9 (2x3) view camera?
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bpepz

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2014, 06:05:00 pm »

As much as I love the Fuji, and I really do, if you use lots of tilt, at least until you get to f/8 or f/11 the image quality is terrible. Let me say again I love Fuji lenses, best bokeh and color I have seen from any system period, but the tilt is bordering on un-useable for image quality at wider apertures.
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Theodoros

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 06:16:53 pm »

As much as I love the Fuji, and I really do, if you use lots of tilt, at least until you get to f/8 or f/11 the image quality is terrible. Let me say again I love Fuji lenses, best bokeh and color I have seen from any system period, but the tilt is bordering on un-useable for image quality at wider apertures.
What about shift? Any issues there?  Also, is the problem with an MFDB? if yes, what MFDB? Another thing, how much you mean when you say "lots of tilt"? (angle value preferred) Thanks for the reply...
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bpepz

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 09:01:20 pm »

What about shift? Any issues there?  Also, is the problem with an MFDB? if yes, what MFDB? Another thing, how much you mean when you say "lots of tilt"? (angle value preferred) Thanks for the reply...

I have never really used shift, just tilt for my food photography. I do not know the exact number, but tilting to the maximum is really bad. A few degrees are usually ok. I have used it with three different MFDBs, the Leaf aptus 6-II, Phase one p25+, and H3D-39, it makes no difference which one you use. Something that can be skewing the results a bit is the fuji lenses, despite many of them being made for tabletop work,  they have major performance hits in the close up range. At medium distances they are really good though. I have never tried tilt or shift on anything other then food so I cant really tell you how it is at infinity.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 10:33:24 pm »

I have a Fuji gx680 also which I mostly bought out of curiosity, but I don't use it too much.  Instead I use my X-Act2 for product type work or my Linhof Technika's.  The X-Act2 has rear movements including shifts, rise/fall so this is easier to stitch with.  The linhof technika's though old are really sturdy and are quite usable - plus you can fit a huge variety of lenses to it.  I do like the rendering of some of the old LF schneiders.  The 5x7 technika's have more movements so you can fit a digital back to a 5x7 to 4x5 reducing back.
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photo570

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2014, 02:56:20 am »

I have a GX680III that I use for table top work. Check out my website, www.shoot.co.nz.  Almost every shot that does not have a person in it, e.g. fashion was shot with a Valeo17 or an AptusII5 on the Fuji. I find the movements to be more than sufficient for tabletop work. The maximum tilt does introduce unacceptable colour fringing but only when you really max it out. I don't find any issues with close-up work. I have the 40mm and 80mm extension rails and regularly shoot jewelry with this set up. I have the 65, 100, 150, and 180mm lenses. I used to use a Sinar P2 and live view, but the reflex system of the Fuji is much quicker to use when doing a big session.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Jason Berge
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Theodoros

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 07:11:44 am »

I have a GX680III that I use for table top work. Check out my website, www.shoot.co.nz.  Almost every shot that does not have a person in it, e.g. fashion was shot with a Valeo17 or an AptusII5 on the Fuji. I find the movements to be more than sufficient for tabletop work. The maximum tilt does introduce unacceptable colour fringing but only when you really max it out. I don't find any issues with close-up work. I have the 40mm and 80mm extension rails and regularly shoot jewelry with this set up. I have the 65, 100, 150, and 180mm lenses. I used to use a Sinar P2 and live view, but the reflex system of the Fuji is much quicker to use when doing a big session.

Cheers,
Jason.
Hi Jason, would you say that tilting using half the angle would be fine with a 6.8μm pixel size back? Also… I really care about how one finds shift at 10mm or less (max of 10mm) with it for the same pixel size and if one can combine that shift, (up to 10mm) with half the swing angle, with focus at 1.5-3.5m and stopped down to f11 or f16 with no issues… Also, is smaller pixel size affected more  (from 9μm size pixels) to the degree that it does with view cameras? …or is it less (or even not noticeable) with the fuji due to the larger lens distance from the image area? Another thing, which lens do you find the sharpest of all in the f8 to f16 range? Anyone else's contribution to any of the above would be very helpful…. 
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sbernthal

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 07:49:37 am »

If you really want tilts and shifts, then 680 III is the cheapest and easiest solution by far.
I had this rig - it cost me all in all $2000 with all the digital adapters and everything in pretty much new condition.

It is huge - on the positive - very impressive to clients and fun for you - on the negative - very cumbersome with work with.
If you want to take the camera high or low or any major repositioning, it becomes an operation.
If you always use a studio stand, then it's not a problem, but with a regular tripod I found the camera is just too big for intensive work.
Of course it is still smaller than a full studio tech cam such as P2.
Taking it to locations is technically possible, but not something you want to be doing regularly.

It is a regular reflex camera, which means a very easy work flow without all the hassles of tech cam viewfinding solutions.
The release and wakeups are taken care of with the one digital adapter, which is not that expensive if you manage it find it used.
The lenses are much sharper and nicer than you would think considering how old they are.
The do not match the latest glass from Mamiya or Hasselblad, but I did not find the glass limiting.
If you are using a large sensor and not have a special reason to pixel peep to 80mp, then it will give very nice results.

All movements work exactly how you would like them too - very easy to do and understand.
The movements on the body are limited - if you want to use  intense movements then it will not be enough.
After a while with this rig, I found myself missing the quick workflow of 645 AF.
The effort to correct every picture with movements was not worth it for me - I could do the same corrections in photoshop so much faster and easier.
The 645 flows effortlessly in studio work.

In summary if you feel you must have movements but not huge movements, this is the easiest way to go.
For me it was a nice journey through movements, which I will now not miss anymore, since I know what I'm missing isn't that great (for me).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 07:52:42 am by sbernthal »
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photo570

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Re: Fuji GX680 vs. LF for movements...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2014, 03:36:44 pm »

I don't know about 6.8μm, both of my backs are 9μm, but I would think that for the combinations of tilt and shift you are talking about it would be fine, especially at mid range focusing distances. I almost exclusively use it between f/11 and f/22, unless I am shooting wide open for shallow depth of field or stopped down to f/32 for macro work. The lenses really are that good.

People forget because they are old and now quite inexpensive on the second-hand market, that this was Fuji's premier camera system "back in the day" I remember pricing a kit new and it was over $30,000 with three lenses. This is top quality gear, have no doubt about that. Yes it is big and heavy, but for studio work it is perfect, and I do use it on a 9 foot Cambo UST camera stand, a tripod is not really the best option.

I have used it on location with both digital and film, and it is doable, not really any harder that shooting with a RZ67 as even though the Fuji is marginally bigger, they weigh about the same as the Fuji uses some composite and the RZ is all metal.

I can best put it this way, for some things it is the perfect camera, for others not so much, that is why I also have a Hasselbald H1 that I can put the Aptus on to shoot people in the studio, and an A99 when I need to work fast on location.

I have two GX680s and "you will have to pry them from my cold dead hands" I believe is the phrase I am looking for.

Kind regards,
Jason.
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Jason Berge
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