A visit in the local zoo ....

[kencameron]

This depends on the context.  I stopped going to these venues and bringing them paying customers because I could no longer support their business.  And make no mistake, all these places are about business and making money.  

However, as I did with one animal park in Oregon (they were sponsoring after hours fighting between species and were even breeding special fighting mixes) I participated on the surface, my real purpose in being there was to expose them.   And I did.  And this was before I stopped going to these places on principal, but it was part of my decision.  Like you said, a war photographer is there to record the war, no other agenda (unless they work for any of the popular news organizations).. but they're also not paying or supporting the way in any way.

Good points. I can see good reasons for not taking paying groups to zoos and I have nothing but respect for the decisions you have made. I think that there are zoos and zoos. Not all are only about making money, some have genuine concern for the welfare of animals and make real contributions to conservation, some provide ample space and custom-designed environments. The difficult point would be that even in zoos like that, a prison is still a prison, however comfortable - a place where social arrangements are distorted and a natural life is impossible. One of those "which is the lesser evil" conundrums.

Sorry, Christopher. These points are for the other thread, I know. I am not sure if it is ever possible for the OP to control where a thread will go. I liked the new shots. Perfect cropping, and they celebrate the dignity of the animals despite any adversity.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Chris,
Absolutly beautiful
#1 is perfect

Please note-If I offended anyone with my previous post,forgive me-I meant no harm in my reply,and I should have toned it down some

Mike

Thanks !
I think your reaction represented one side of the coin and I think the discussion or even little quarrel is a proof the images work and evoke something.
So - though a little sidetracked I think that's all perfectly okay and I can be happy with the outcome.

Cheers
~Chris

...
Sorry, Christopher. These points are for the other thread, I know. I am not sure if it is ever possible for the OP to control where a thread will go. I liked the new shots. Perfect cropping, and they celebrate the dignity of the animals despite any adversity.

Thanks !
I don't think I can control the thread, nor do I really want to control it.
As long as it doesn't get destroyed or completely derailed I think its perfectly okay to have a bit of discussion in it.
I think it would be very self-centered of me to attempt to suppress feelings and thoughts not directly resulting in praise.
Cheers
~Chris

[Steve Weldon]

I don't think I can control the thread, nor do I really want to control it.
As long as it doesn't get destroyed or completely derailed I think its perfectly okay to have a bit of discussion in it.
I think it would be very self-centered of me to attempt to suppress feelings and thoughts not directly resulting in praise.
Cheers
~Chris

1.  After some time on a forum you soon learn who wants to control their threads, or who feels secure enough to encourage they be opened a bit.  And perhaps I'm guilty of something when I stop attending the threads the OP's wish controlled, but it's really my intention to respect their wishes.

2.  Personally I think the discussion is the most interesting part where I learn the most and more importantly get to know and socialize with different members.  I have friends on this forum I've known in excess of 15 years, and I value these friendships greatly.  They started with discussion. .... and if the truth be known with banishment from another forum which didn't make it.  I suspect there wasn't enough discussion..   

3.  Au contraire, mon frère.  That your images invoked sadness was indeed praise.  Sadness is no less desirable as an emotion than is joy or even fear and in some cases jealousy.. 

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

1.  After some time on a forum you soon learn who wants to control their threads, or who feels secure enough to encourage they be opened a bit.  And perhaps I'm guilty of something when I stop attending the threads the OP's wish controlled, but it's really my intention to respect their wishes.

2.  Personally I think the discussion is the most interesting part where I learn the most and more importantly get to know and socialize with different members.  I have friends on this forum I've known in excess of 15 years, and I value these friendships greatly.  They started with discussion. .... and if the truth be known with banishment from another forum which didn't make it.  I suspect there wasn't enough discussion..  

3.  Au contraire, mon frère.  That your images invoked sadness was indeed praise.  Sadness is no less desirable as an emotion than is joy or even fear and in some cases jealousy..  

Its all a matter of balance.
 
Cheers
~Chris

[Steve Weldon]

Its all a matter of balance.
 
Cheers
~Chris

Yes it is.  Sadly some have clung to the balance beam all too tightly.   

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Yes it is.  Sadly some have clung to the balance beam all too tightly.   

Its all in the eye of the beholder and everyone needs to find his own way to deal with the various issues.

My experience of the last years or even decades is such, that there are many valid ways to see reality.
I have my personal ideas and beliefs, of course, some even quite strict, but I find it more and more important
to encourage communication with respect to the borders of the counterpart as well as I try to keep my own territory half way safe.

The issue of animal portraits taken in a zoo is polarizing at least and my stance towards polarization is to balance.
If things get to soft, dishonest and blah-blah I tend to polarize and provoke.
That's partly how I understand balance.

Cheers
~Chris

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Only one today - from the subworld.
Cheers
~Chris

Encounter

[pikeys]

Only one today - from the subworld.
Cheers
~Chris

Encounter

Excellent,
Please note ,the smile on the childs face-4th from the left..at least I think its a smile,?
That says it all...

Mike

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Excellent,
Please note ,the smile on the childs face-4th from the left..at least I think its a smile,?
That says it all...

Mike

It was quite a stir in the group when the Walrus suddenly arrived.
It appeared both sides were equally curious ....
Cheers
~Chris

[RSL]

Best one yet, Chris.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Thanks again everyone.
Russ: Seems to be the most street photography like shot of the day.
Some more edits from today...

Cheers
~Chris

Lion

Aoudad

Fire Fox a.k.a. Red Panda

King Eider

Puffin

[pikeys]

Chris,
Absolutely beautiful...lion shot,all are excellent,but this guy  really stands out,
Looks like he doesn't have the "Zoo Blues",or sad /depressed in any way,seems quite content

Mike

[wolfnowl]

Some great work, Chris. Mike Shaw does some chiaroscuro work of zoo animals in England that I quite like:
https://plus.google.com/+MikeShaw/photos

Mike.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Chris,
Absolutely beautiful...lion shot,all are excellent,but this guy  really stands out,
Looks like he doesn't have the "Zoo Blues",or sad /depressed in any way,seems quite content

Mike

Thanks!

I am totally not sure how far we can judge the internal state of animals at all and especially from photographs.

We might halfway know dogs or cats since we live with them, but I am afraid what happens what we think about them is greatly anthropocentric.
We judge the facial expressions of animals in a way as if they were humans and how a human would feel if looking or behaving so and so.
People dealing on a daily basis with animals most likely have a different view and might be able to have some sort of better fitting empathy.
Especially concepts like "freedom" or "dignity" are not easily applicable to animals.

I personally believe that animals (at least the higher developed ones like mammals or vertebrates) have feelings and character or soul,
but in a way we can only partially understand. There is a lot of projection going on when we judge animals.

On the other hand - that's the same way how we judge other humans.
We can not directly look into someones soul.
We always automagically conclude subconsciously from our perception and use projection from our own internal states.

One could question why it should not be legit to do the same with our next relatives, like primates (e.g. the orang utan), mammals (e.g. the tiger) or vertebrates (e.g. the puffin) ...

Cheers
~Chris

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Some great work, Chris. Mike Shaw does some chiaroscuro work of zoo animals in England that I quite like:
https://plus.google.com/+MikeShaw/photos

Mike.

Thanks !
And thanks for sharing that link - he's going much further with that kind of processing than I did - definitely an inspiration for some experimental edits ..
Cheers
~Chris

[Steve Weldon]

Thanks!

I am totally not sure how far we can judge the internal state of animals at all and especially from photographs.

We might halfway know dogs or cats since we live with them,

Love the walrus..

A study came out last weekend that basically said a dog can feel no shame.  I'm sure this surprised a lot of dog owners myself included.  This of course if you put stock in such studies, and is where I lean against the fence..  (about the only source of support most of these studies have.)

I envy your enjoyment of zoos.  I used to get just as enthused and loved my outings.  Especially my early morning forays into the Bangkok Wild Animal Park when it would rain the migrating birds would come and go and the trucks would dump hundreds of pounds of fish and other foods, and if you caught it just right the small pickup with a steel barred cage and lady in a tiger striped hot pants suit and go-go boots would stick large pieces of raw meat through the bars as the lions and tigers draped themselves over the top and sides.. and then the bear fights, the bucks clashing their antlers, and so much more.  Loved those mornings.  And such a large park right in the middle of a large city (figured out that secret eventually)..  I wrote more than a few articles about my times there.  Clients used to tell me they'd book me because they could feel my enthusiasm.    Wonderful times, to thing day nothing has been as convenient and rewarding.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

The funny thing is - I have not been to a zoo for something like 10 years.
2 years ago I had the idea to photograph the local zoo, but it took until this last weekend to realize it.

I actually prefer to go out into the landscape and be in natural environments.
And I am not really fond of the artificiality and the amount of kitsch I find the the zoo, like artificial pseudo asian landscapes and such.

The most funny thing I saw there was a dad and his youngster asking his son "What is that animal?" and pointing to a large Buffalo.
The youngster (maybe 3 years old) answered: " A hamster" .... man I needed a couple of minutes to calm down from laughing ...

I like animals - fellow beings - living and suffering like humans do - just in their own way.
I accept the zoo it as a part of human culture and as something of great value to many.
I see both sides of it - and I decided to photograph it the way I did for the reasons I wrote up in earlier posts.

Reading your post again the song of "The life of Brian" comes to my mind:
"Always look at the bright side of life ..."

Cheers
~Chris

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Today I got the Fuji EF-42 Flash - I think I'm going to re-visit the zoo and try some flash images.
There are some areas where it is allowed and where the animals are used to it.

Allright - so far for .plans - and here my edits from today:

Cheers
~Chris

Ostrich Aoudad No.2 Crowned Crane No.3 Yellow-Billed Stork

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Allright - my zoo series is coming to an end for now.
And these are some of the last edits - I don't think there will be many more.

But I'll re-visit the zoo - they have a whole section I have not yet visited -
the "Tropical Aquarium" with a tropical indoor environment and aquarium.
I also want to do animal portraits which make use of off-camera flash.

The complete set with my picks from this shoot is here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/feldhaim/sets/72157641746785553

I hope you enjoyed the excursion - until next time ...

Cheers
~Chris

Elephant Lady Detail

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Tiger Lady

Peacock Lady

Giraffe

[Chairman Bill]

Some truly stunning photos. I'm seriously impressed