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Author Topic: DxO: The New Leica S test  (Read 38367 times)

bcooter

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2014, 02:32:37 am »

Okay, sounds reasonable. The (Phaseone) DF certainly is not an easy manual focus camera – very grainy screen, so it's f11 and intuition or switch to a Canon.

I just reviewed yesterday's shoot.   Mostly in focus some out, 1/2 manual focus.  Last shot had huge backlight, with only and slight led fill and I'm talking all white window, white props so maybe 7 stops difference at least.   Hit manual focus on 80% or so of the images and this is a very quick moving model, even in a stationary postion.

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Yeah, but I'm talking more about skin tones, great reds and blues and the way a phase file, like a film file, can have a good strong curve and melt away in the highs and lows without blocking up/breaking off. And it does it with ease, not like a Canon file, which seem un-workable under some lighting conditions and usually just look thin and brittle and pinkish. But that's probably a cmos thing, although you keep raving about your Oly's, so maybe it's just a Canon thing.

I'm with you on skin tones, hate that orange look, or bright reds and blotches.   Right now i'm working a lot of cool skin look.

I could get close in lightroom to show the effect we'd present.  Not 100% because for these images it will take some special post work, but I like lightroom for a quick effect.  C-1 is excellent tethering software, fast and not as moveable as lightroom.  

The Leica file and my p30 file are almost identical in sharpness and depth.    Not thin brittle or pinkish, though I do set my own calibration per talent so I guess that a lot to do with the processor.

The olympus, I have set very flat by moving the in camera curves.  The 43 files are good have more latitude than my 1dx but they're not as deep as a leica file.

I'll have to admit the p30 as old as it is holds up and holds up well.  Great back with the Contax, but not near as fast or as easy as the leica.  We set it up on a second station, but finally just tuned it off because the Leica was stable and that dslr format is just faster and easier for me.  I love my contax, they work great but they're slower and though they tether much faster in c-1 than lightroom, I have more disconnect errors, probably due to the back and camera having different power sources (that's just a guess) where the leica is an all in one item.  The leica has one of the world's great tethering cords in the way it semi locks to the camera.   I can't say enough about the stability and the accuracy of the ground glass to the sensor

Though early last year I did a quick test with the h5d 40 and thought those were the nicest skin tones out of the can without adjustment, but I didn't want to go to the cost of switching lenses, bodies, backs, complete platforms including backups.   That would have ben over $50,000.    The leica let me keep my Contax and lenses all in one case for much much less.

Who would have thought a leica would be less money than a phase of a hasselblad?



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There you go again. Man I'd like to see those files because when I look at om-d files on these forums I just cringe. Bad color and way too much contrast (on the ends of the curve).
Not trying to knock anyone, I just haven't seen anything that I thought was really good.
But I'll be honest, bokeh and high ISO are not high priority for me, so maybe I'm not in the same ballpark as most.
But great color, good highlight and shadow transition – like a good Pentax 67 negative – that's something that would like to see.

Many thanks for the infos.

Your welcome.

Yea most 4/3 samples I've seen are not uh really good, but you have to learn to set the camera up.  It takes a long time to learn the menu, once done your usually done.
Once again the only drawback on the olympus is the em5 has a real pretty film look out of camera, though the em-1 is more close to my leica files, but the em-1 is a very good camera.
EVF's are a learned taste, but once you get use to them optical finders seem strange, though when I shoot the leica for 5 hours and grab the olympus at first it kind of freaks me out.

If you get one for testing, learn the settings, make a flat film with the curves and really shoot with it.  The only problem is it doesn't tether.   Man is olympus ever going to hear that message?

I'm not dissing the new phase though, because I really haven't tried it.  I just think it's too expensive when compared to comparable brands, but Phase would probably disagree.

A new phase body I would find interesting, though I doubt if I'll buy anything but a second leica for backup in the larger than 35mm world.

My next purchase will be the panasonic gh4 for video and if leica does make a 100mm I'll get one of those.
IMO

BC
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 02:54:38 am by bcooter »
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robert zimmerman

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2014, 05:12:07 am »

So I should go ahead delete the 430 frames I did with the IQ250/DF+ (180 of which were wide open) of the Miami wedding I shot this weekend?


110LS, f/2.8. Autofocus on DF+ set to continuous tracking


110LS, f/2.8. Manual focus on DF+ (AF might have been problematic due to ambient light being strongly backlit - didn't try, just used manual)

Nothing is impossible, and you have good flat light, they're walking straight towards you, which let's you anticipate focus (that shot was planned), so yeah, under good circumstances manual focus works. A fast moving model in dim light is a different story, and I would hesitate to manual focus wide open in that situation…but then again, I'm a mere human.
Just to clarify, I wasn't originally referring to manually focusing a staged shot, rather catching a fleeting moment.

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robert zimmerman

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2014, 05:54:42 am »

The Leica file and my p30 file are almost identical in sharpness and depth.    Not thin brittle or pinkish, though I do set my own calibration per talent so I guess that a lot to do with the processor.
I know the p30+ file well. Great back(s) (all the + backs) and if those backs had decent screens, I would own one.

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The olympus, I have set very flat by moving the in camera curves.  The 43 files are good have more latitude than my 1dx but they're not as deep as a leica file.
Just a question, could you get a Fuji NPC (flat and dreamy) look by moving the in camera curves and still shoot raw? Like profiling a raw file?

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The leica has one of the world's great tethering cords in the way it semi locks to the camera.   I can't say enough about the stability and the accuracy of the ground glass to the sensor
What a silly idea to actually make tether cable lock and put it in a position that doesn't flap in your face all the time… I do admire the sense of humor phase has when it comes to cable ports – the usb3 hole in my IQ back was a great place to store a cigarette for the longest time.

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I'm not dissing the new phase though, because I really haven't tried it.  I just think it's too expensive when compared to comparable brands, but Phase would probably disagree.
Then you're the only one not dissing it (No need to comment Doug, I'm kidding, kind of…).
It's okay, but it's still a Mamiya 645 at heart. Although I do love the AF/MF ring on the Schneider lenses (Okay, not really part of the Mamiya) – I use that ring constantly.
Do the Leica lenses have manual focus overdrive? I don't remember anymore how switching between af and mf worked on those lenses.

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A new phase body I would find interesting, though I doubt if I'll buy anything but a second leica for backup in the larger than 35mm world.
The new Phase body… it's like waiting for the second coming of Christ – we have high hopes, to put it mildly.
I'm pretty sure if Mamiya is involved it's gonna be the Graham Chapman of Messiah's…
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 07:28:36 am by robert zimmerman »
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bcooter

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2014, 12:49:33 pm »

I know the p30+ file well. Great back(s) (all the + backs) and if those backs had decent screens, I would own one.
Just a question, could you get a Fuji NPC (flat and dreamy) look by moving the in camera curves and still shoot raw? Like profiling a raw file?
What a silly idea to actually make tether cable lock and put it in a position that doesn't flap in your face all the time… I do admire the sense of humor phase has when it comes to cable ports – the usb3 hole in my IQ back was a great place to store a cigarette for the longest time.
Then you're the only one not dissing it (No need to comment Doug, I'm kidding, kind of…).
It's okay, but it's still a Mamiya 645 at heart. Although I do love the AF/MF ring on the Schneider lenses (Okay, not really part of the Mamiya) – I use that ring constantly.
Do the Leica lenses have manual focus overdrive? I don't remember anymore how switching between af and mf worked on those lenses.
The new Phase body… it's like waiting for the second coming of Christ – we have high hopes, to put it mildly.
I'm pretty sure if Mamiya is involved it's gonna be the Graham Chapman of Messiah's…


The p+ backs I have are very good, it's just with a contax, they are a three to four part system.  In other words the back, prism, body and lens must have completely clean and secure connections or it will drop off and everyone knows you have to watch firewire because it's fast but also can disconnect slightly and your off.   Capture integration has a cable, kind of like the old leaf cable that has fw 400 to 800 connector that works well, but the old Leaf fw 400 cable was the only cable I used that always worked without issue.

Also on my contax all the batteries have to be fully charged and if the body drops off your off, or the back, so you have to keep an eye on both.  

Honestly I wasn't going to spend 50 grand on another still camera and if the Leica hadn't accepted all of my contax lenses I would probably have passed.  The Zeiss Contax lenses are so well built that they feel the same as when I bought them new and all but two out of the 8 lenses I own are new, so I assume they'll last a long time.

The one leica lens I have, the 120 is very good, to me doesn't look any different than the contax lenses, though to our crew they all said they saw a difference, but who knows?  The Leica is a little smoother maybe with less crisp bite than the zeiss, but it's all close in digital.  

For manual focus you just set it for manual focus on the back, a two button push and it's fine and easy and you have a button on the back to hit for autofocus if you need it.

The thing is though I like the form factor of a contax with a removable prism, but for some reason it makes me work more static.  I can't say why, but it just does, where with the Leica I work more fluid.  Probably all in my head, but the Contax I'm much more gentle with the Leica I kind of toss around like a 35mm.

I have only one minor complaint of the leica and it's the f stop wheel on the back.  If you push it in it goes to auto and for me I know it but as you know, hand a camera to an assistant to hold and some will hit or change every setting on the camera, but it snaps right back to where you were so it's not a search the menu type of issue.

The leica menu is simple, simple, looks like the p back buttons but easier, as each button moves it to a different section that is fast to access.

The battery on the leica last all day.  I have three and we changed it for safety but didn't have to.

As far as color I can make any look I want, though color is very subjective, what looks like Agfa or Fuji to you might look like chrome film to me.  What I like about the Leica is it seems less prone to ambient color bounce.  I never saw the room syndrome, which means if a room is white or grey then the subject is colorless.   Cmos cameras seem to do this a lot where the surrounding colors seem to dominate the scene.

I love that it's a dng file though not all dng's are created equal and it works in lightroom and iridient very well, so I'm pretty much covered before I go to photoshop.

C1 is great tethering software and fast but I stay on 7 as c1 7 requires newer computers with newer graphics cards.  I have some, but since I have three locations and I don't know about 12 computers I run, I just don't want to start tossing out computers because of file formats and software requirements so for the Contax I stay with c1 6 and if I want an effected look like I shot Saturday, I tether through c-1 but run a hot folder to lightroom anyway, so working a with lightroom doesn't bother me, though the images come into lightroom in bursts if your running corrections so you have to get use to it.

The clients at first said it was slow but then everyone got use to it and honestly I don't like people seeing every frame before I get a session partially started because you start getting direction saying now move this, move that before you ever get started.

The thing I found most amazing was how the contax lenses were all in focus with the leica with their adapter and worked natively.    I found that pretty amazing as I'm usually not a fan of adapters, but for safety I bought two and there wasn't an issue or even a thought about it.

IMO

BC

Just a note.   Bottom line to me was I wanted a ccd camera for some still work, didn't want to go the 50 grand route of changing everything I own and the leica is kind of a modern version of the contax, though still kind of old school.

It tethered, it works, it was stable in a very brutal week so I have no complaints.  Would I like some things faster, sure, but overall it's fine, the price is good, I shot the gigs, the check will clear and not to buy into brand bling, but it has a nice feel to it, nicer than any camera I own except probably my m8 and my olympus.  

Now truth be told, if the olympus would tether and maybe was a little larger format, I'd probably never have thought of the leica, but it doesn't it won't, probably never will and in all honesty professional production usually requires robust equipment.

Note 2 and this is a wish not a reality.  If Sony would have made the a7/R with a full set of fast lenses, a reasonable tethering option, the full frame autofocus of the olympus and panasonic, a touch screen like the panasonic for pulling video focus and a module like the gh4 for 10 bit 422 video and true xlr inputs, they would have covered most of my still and video needs.  But Sony like they only took it part way and I guess that's the way the consumer digital world works.

It's a shame because like someone said the Sony "could" be perceived as a digital back for lenses of all sorts, but they didn't go as far as leica and make the focus as robust and they limited other factors.

I assume to hit certain price points, but with add ons like the gh4 bottom module for video, they could have really had something.





« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 01:27:46 pm by bcooter »
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MrSmith

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2014, 02:50:23 pm »

"If Sony would have made the a7/R with a full set of fast lenses, a reasonable tethering option"

I downloaded the free sony app and was shooting into capture1 in a few mins. No dropouts or restarts but then I didn't get trigger happy as it was still life and have no idea what the buffer is like.
As for fast lenses well MR Zeiss needs to pull his finger out or it's an adapter and just about any lens ever made.

I'm shooting at a high end watch brand in geneva this week (think $400,000 timepieces) and have to shoot some diamond setters/watchmakers with available light and am tempted to try the focus peaking and focus manually. It will either work famously or I'll be reaching for the 5DIII which I trust to nail it 99% of the time at 2:8 to 4:0
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Manoli

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2014, 03:46:56 pm »

s finger out or it's an adapter and
I downloaded the free sony app and was shooting into capture1 in a few mins.
[...]
have to shoot some diamond setters/watchmakers with available light and am tempted to try the focus peaking and focus manually. It will either work famously or I'll be reaching for the 5DIII which I trust to nail it 99% of the time at 2:8 to 4:0

Try it and you won't go back for anything (at least not when it comes to manual focus). For 'critical focus' I would still trust the enlarged 'live view' first but the 'fp' is a great visual confirmation.

The other plus (never realised until I played with it) is that with wide-angles it's a great aid for 'seeing' dof in real time - particularly in street/candid shooting. Curious to see if it helps you when your shooting those Patek's.

BTW, isn't it customary for them to give one to the photographer as a 'thank-you' present ? [LHQ]

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bcooter

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2014, 03:50:36 pm »

Try it and you won't go back for anything (at least not when it comes to manual focus). For 'critical focus' I would still trust the enlarged 'live view' first but the 'fp' is a great visual confirmation.

The other plus (never realised until I played with it) is that with wide-angles it's a great aid for 'seeing' dof in real time - particularly in street/candid shooting. Curious to see if it helps you when your shooting those Patek's.

BTW, isn't it customary for them to give one to the photographer as a 'thank-you' present ? [LHQ]



This probably doesn't matter to most, but to me the only reason to have a mirrorless camera is for the video functions.  Without robust video optical finders are fine, because mirrorless still has some slight lag for still viewing and burns through batteries faster.

The upside is focusing is wysiwyg along with tone and color settings.

Let's face it, most people went to the A7r because canon didn't have a 35mpx still camera and they owned canon lenses.

The thing that drives people nuts about Sony (especially in video/motion cameras) is they're always all over the place.  

Panasonic is on the right track (sort of) with video offering a 4k camera and if you want to spend the money you get a module for 4:2:2 non compressed and xlr inputs.   That's a hell of a deal for a $3500 system.

It's just panasonic doesn't seem concerned with stills and their parallel brother in m43 Olympus doesn't seem to care about motion, so it takes twice the bodies to handle two functions.

Sony could have covered it all had the A7 had full autofocus across the complete frame (see olympus and panasonic), offered in camera stabilization (see olympus) better video (see panasonic) and adapters that let Canon and other autofocus lenses work as well as they do on their native systems (see Leica).

But they didn't and though I tested the s__t out of the A7, (not the R) I couldn't get as good a still image as my olympus em-1, didn't have the same functions, focus as fast and quite frankly for people and moving objects offer as sharp an image.

Though we all work differently, but Sony really has a chance to make that system killer rather than limited and the video on the A7 and A7R is limited.

This is just a guess, but I assume that Sony want's to move you to the next higher priced product (can't blame them for that), but when you know that what you buying is only a few firmware tweeks, or added module away from what you really need it's kind of frustrating.

For photographers that shoot static objects in still images, want 35mpx and want to continue with their Canon glass, the A7R is fine, but it didn't hit the marks for what I needed.

I'm all for buying what I need and it was the A7R that moved me to the Leica.  For the price of an A7R and some Sony zeiss lenses I could buy a Leica and use my contax lenses so I kind of went Leica, sony, leica sony, uhhhh . . . Leica, especially since I had video covered with the RED's and the Panasonics.


IMO

BC

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:09:35 pm by bcooter »
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MrSmith

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2014, 04:15:46 pm »

It's a great camera in its own little niche though flawed, but then you can say that about most cameras :)
I doubt sony expected many canon users to dip a toe in their brand with the A7r though and that wouldn't have happened without metabones help.
Leica did the smart thing with their lens adapters.
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telyt

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2014, 05:20:28 pm »

Leica did the smart thing with their lens adapters.

I agree completely.  The adapters allow photographers to dip a toe into Leica's S pool without buying into a full system & extend the capabilities of their existing lenses, then once the S body is in the hands of photographers the door is open to lens sales.  The adapters were a very smart move IMHO.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2014, 05:28:08 pm »

Nothing is impossible, and you have good flat light, they're walking straight towards you, which let's you anticipate focus (that shot was planned), so yeah, under good circumstances manual focus works. A fast moving model in dim light is a different story, and I would hesitate to manual focus wide open in that situation…but then again, I'm a mere human.
Just to clarify, I wasn't originally referring to manually focusing a staged shot, rather catching a fleeting moment.


The walking shot was AF and flat low lighting is not ideal for that. The shot of them kissing was strongly backlit, not ideal for MF. But yes, both of those were on the easy end of the range of situations I shoot in at a wedding - the two I shared were just the more pretty of the images I shot.

I have plenty of spontaneous moments shot with MF as well...







Again, don't get me wrong. For very fast moving or very low light a dSLR is the only way to go. The dark-reception-flower-toss demands fast fps, fast AF, and excellent low ISO capabilities - excellent ettl flash helps too. Phase/Hassy/Pentax/Leica et al aren't fast-action or low-light cameras. But your statement that you can't focus manually without using f/11 does not match my personal experience.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 05:34:39 pm by Doug Peterson »
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Manoli

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2014, 05:40:07 pm »

BC,
In short, from your post above, there's not much, if anything, that we disagree on.  

I'm all for buying what I need and it was the A7R that moved me to the Leica.  For the price of an A7R and some Sony zeiss lenses I could buy a Leica and use my contax lenses so I kind of went Leica, sony, leica sony, uhhhh . . .

The reasons you gave for choosing Leica are those that moved me to Sony ( though I  had to think about it because of the shutter jitter bs) but in the end pulled the plug . We've discussed this before, you're pro , I'm talking as an amateur, but within those two very distinct disciplines, there is one undeniable factor in common – interoperability.

Your main reason for going Leica, as you said above, were for the adaptability of your lens set – the very reason that I went Sony. The M8 was the last Leica, but now most of the lenses are on the Fuji/Sony combination.

Your criticisms of the Sony are right – they don't have the Leica / Olympus DNA – yet.  Plus their habit of  killing a promising yet 'never-quite-right' product line is almost legendary.   But they broke the 35mm FF  Canon/Nikon lens stranglehold and in the end if it falls,  it's just one body not a whole lens set.

Back to the Leica S .  With a new S just a few months away, Leica have a real chance to establish themselves as a major player in the MF field. I just hope they bring Live View and FP to the new CMOS sensor and don't blow the  opportunity to become a driving force in the MF market.  For sure though, their move to bring legacy glass compatibility to the S was a ground breaking move. Interesting times.  

All best,
M
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:02:40 pm by Manoli »
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eronald

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2014, 06:32:08 pm »

I'm still laughing about the fact that Phase One's predatory pricing, thrifty body revisions and sense of entitlement have turned Leica into a value-based medium format competitor.

What kills me in Cooter's report are the details, Leica batteries which last and last,  the Leica lens adapters, or the Leica tethering cable that doesn't shake loose, or the Leica software which actually does what it says on the box. It's not rocket science, it's solid detail work.

Nobody gets the small stuff right by accident. That's what Apple has been teaching the phone industry.

The guys at Wetzlar must be rolling around their brand new carpeting and laughing, laughing, laughing ...

Edmund

PS. I'm getting the boards for my open source camera designed and made in Germany - if I ever get to that stage.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:51:42 pm by eronald »
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JV

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2014, 08:56:21 pm »

I love that it's a dng file though not all dng's are created equal and it works in lightroom and iridient very well, so I'm pretty much covered before I go to photoshop.

It might be too early to answer this question but how does Iridient compare to LightRoom?

I use Iridient for Fuji (X-Pro1/X-T1/X100s) and also started using it for Leica M. 

Iridient does precisely what I want it to do, i.e.. produce a malleable file that can be further processed in PhotoShop.

Although C1 is very good I don't need most of its complexity and I loathe that it is so resource hungry.

I always thought that LightRoom was the only way for Leica S…  Being able to use Iridient would be a big plus.
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synn

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2014, 10:51:54 pm »

I find it funny how Leica's ability to use legacy lenses from other formats as a "Cheap way to build a kit" is seen as something new.

I bought an entire set of perfectly usable Mamiya lenses (Ultrawide, short tele, long tele) for use on my kit for USD 1,400. That's less than what a Single Hasselblad H or Contax lens is going for these days.

No adapter needed too.
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Telecaster

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2014, 11:13:25 pm »

Your (BC's, that is) criticisms of the Sony are right – they don't have the Leica / Olympus DNA – yet. Plus their habit of killing a promising yet 'never-quite-right' product line is almost legendary. But they broke the 35mm FF Canon/Nikon lens stranglehold and in the end if it falls, it's just one body not a whole lens set.

Yeah. I see the Sony as a "legacy" lens platform that also features some native lenses. It's high-quality crack for a lens geek like me...I've lost lots of time over the past 2+ months having fun with it. OTOH I'm out & about doing actual photography at the moment, and I've got my Olympus E-M1 & E-M5 with me plus a handful of lovely Oly lenses. I just trust the m43 gear more to do the job (and in some cases actually allow things I couldn't otherwise do).

Now if Sony pulled a Leica and came out with their own full-featured EF- & F-mount adapters I suspect they'd really kick off some camera industry gravitational wave action. (Sorry, couldn't resist that. It's been quite a day in the astrophysics world!)

-Dave-
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bcooter

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2014, 11:23:28 pm »

The Leica is old school.   It's a ovf, big lens, big sensor slower camera with one focus point.

Though in actuality it's smaller than my 1 series Canons, and kind of feels the same, except I can manually focus.

The Sony is new school and  . . .  which has it's pluses and minuses.   If Sony wanted to it would have all pluses.

I never said the contax lenses were cheap, they weren't but I owned them so it was an easy move for me.   I never thought the Leica was better or worse than a phase or hasselblad, or anything for that matter, just different and well built.  I like it, but hey I shot some pretty stuff lately so I always like a camera if I shoot pretty stuff.

I think those older Mamiya lenses are sharp, I never liked the build quality of some of them, except for the 300 2.8 which was magic if used right.

Iridient (sp?) is great, but I haven't done anything with the Leica files in it yet.  We've just returned from traveling so I'll see more in the next few days.

But I do know that I won't spend 50 grand on a still camera or any camera again unless it's an arriflex so I'm not the right guy to talk to about 50 grand cameras.

But I gotta give credit to Doug.  Not just shooting a wedding with a medium format camera, but shooting a wedding period.   Man that's brave cause the only way I could do that is if witness protection moved me to New Mexico and told me to start over.

IMO

BC

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eronald

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2014, 11:28:42 pm »


The Sony is new school and  . . .  which has it's pluses and minuses.   If Sony wanted to it would have all pluses.

IMO

BC



I think the Sony could be much better still if someone could redo the firmware like people redid the 5DII and III with Magic Lantern. That sensor might profit from some cleaner (non delta) encoding of still images and from tricks to extract higher DR. Also, the menus could probably be improved. Hint - Sony- hint ... why not allow an open source firmware project to take hold ?

Edmund
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 11:31:58 pm by eronald »
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synn

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2014, 11:44:54 pm »

I never said the contax lenses were cheap, they weren't but I owned them so it was an easy move for me.   I never thought the Leica was better or worse than a phase or hasselblad, or anything for that matter, just different and well built.  I like it, but hey I shot some pretty stuff lately so I always like a camera if I shoot pretty stuff.

I think those older Mamiya lenses are sharp, I never liked the build quality of some of them, except for the 300 2.8 which was magic if used right.



Wasn't aimed at you per se, I understand that it makes perfect business sense for you to get a system that will allow you to work with your existing Contax lenses.

But the general sentiment in the forum regarding this topic is that Leica has done something unprecedented, which simply isn't true. One of the main reasons I went with Phamiya (And Nikon when I moved to 35mm digital) is the ability to use legacy AF lenses for not much.

The old Mamiya lenses (Except the 35, which is built like a tank) are plasticky, but not much unlike a Modern Nikon G prime. The 210mm I have is as sharp as the 80mm Schneider LS, which is impressive in my books.
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Martin Ranger

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2014, 11:45:26 pm »

I find it funny how Leica's ability to use legacy lenses from other formats as a "Cheap way to build a kit" is seen as something new.

I bought an entire set of perfectly usable Mamiya lenses (Ultrawide, short tele, long tele) for use on my kit for USD 1,400. That's less than what a Single Hasselblad H or Contax lens is going for these days.

No adapter needed too.

There is a difference between allowing the use of a different brand of lenses and having a bunch of legacy glass that comes with your legacy body. In the first case it is a conscious decision to make your camera more attractive by increasing the number of available lenses, the second is just the result of having a legacy lens mount on your camera. It might not be an entirely new idea, but I think for Leica it was a very clever move as it may convince photographers to go with Leica even when they are not happy with the Leica lens selection (this is less of a problem for Mamiya). The downside is that they are creating competition for their own lenses, of course, but it also creates a signal that they believe their own lenses to be superior.
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Martin Ranger
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Martin Ranger

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Re: DxO: The New Leica S test
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2014, 11:47:37 pm »

Just to be clear, this is not meant to imply the superiority of any MF or non-MF camera system. I have no horse in that race.
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Martin Ranger
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