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Author Topic: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6  (Read 18174 times)

JayWPage

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Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« on: February 19, 2014, 02:17:54 pm »

I have been doing some focus stacking in Photoshop CS6 with mixed results. In the ideal situation with several well aligned images and overlapping depth of fields, Photoshop produces a good result, at least to my eye. However, if there is a part of the picture that is not in focus in any of the images, then that area seems to end up worse than in any individual images. This is especially true for something like, for example blurred water in a stream, which is blurred in each image.

Does Helicon Focus do a better job, especially with the out of focus or blurred areas of the images? I'm sure someone on here has exhaustively tested out all the options in this regard and can point me in the right direction.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 03:50:00 pm »

I have been doing some focus stacking in Photoshop CS6 with mixed results. In the ideal situation with several well aligned images and overlapping depth of fields, Photoshop produces a good result, at least to my eye. However, if there is a part of the picture that is not in focus in any of the images, then that area seems to end up worse than in any individual images. This is especially true for something like, for example blurred water in a stream, which is blurred in each image.

Hi Jay,

Focus stacking algorithms depend on focused detail to do the automatic blending. Photoshop can be used to manually blend layers by masking them with a black layer mask except for where you want to combine that layer's detail. That detail can also be blurred areas then, but it's a manual blending/masking job. It's very labor intensive.

Quote
Does Helicon Focus do a better job, especially with the out of focus or blurred areas of the images? I'm sure someone on here has exhaustively tested out all the options in this regard and can point me in the right direction.

Hard to say if it will do better, but it does allow much more control over the process, and the Pro and Premium versions offer Retouching capability which allows to use any layer to paint in detail (or blur). It can also help to use a clever workflow, e.g. first combine all detailed image parts, and then the blurred parts with other settings, and finally combine only the two stacked results in a final stack (with retouching if needed).

So it will probably not be a fully automatic procedure, but with more chance of pulling it off at all. Besides that, Helicon focus will also get better results with the focused areas, because superior resampling algorithms can be used (and each refocused (=magnification changed) image will be resampled to align and register them).

Cheers,
Bart
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francois

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 06:37:54 am »

I'd say that sometimes Helicon Focus is better than Photoshop and sometimes Photoshop is better. Most of the time, manual work is still necessary. Helicon Focus offers more stacking/blending methods and parameters than Photoshop.  There's a couple of old articles that might interest you

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/Helicon.shtml
http://www.josephholmes.com/news-heliconfocus.html
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Francois

dwswager

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 07:38:18 pm »

I have been doing some focus stacking in Photoshop CS6 with mixed results. In the ideal situation with several well aligned images and overlapping depth of fields, Photoshop produces a good result, at least to my eye. However, if there is a part of the picture that is not in focus in any of the images, then that area seems to end up worse than in any individual images. This is especially true for something like, for example blurred water in a stream, which is blurred in each image.

Does Helicon Focus do a better job, especially with the out of focus or blurred areas of the images? I'm sure someone on here has exhaustively tested out all the options in this regard and can point me in the right direction.

Was wondering if you got Helicon Focus and what your thoughts are.  This is relevant since HeliconSoft is giving 20% off right now so I'm deciding whether to just buy Helicon Remote or Buy the whole premium package with Focus, Remote and Remote Android.

I've been playing with Helicon Remote and doing the stacking in photoshop CS6.  Does Helicon Focus 6 do a better job than photoshop?  My focus will really be using this for landscape and some still life/product photography.  It might get me into some macro work though.
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Isaac

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 09:29:37 pm »

My focus will really be using this for landscape and some still life/product photography.  It might get me into some macro work though.

I've been able to use enfuse for landscapes: Focus Stacks – Depth-of-Field Increase.

For close-up/macro, among the half-dozen different processing approaches provided by CombineZP there usually seems to be one better than the results I can get with align_image_stack and enfuse.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 09:32:12 pm by Isaac »
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mlewis

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 04:23:31 am »

I prefer Zerene Stacker for focus stacking. In my limited experience Photoshop isn't very good at it.
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 05:45:32 pm »

@ Bart, reply #1

>It can also help to use a clever workflow, e.g. first combine all detailed image parts, and then the blurred parts with other settings, and finally combine only the two stacked results in a final stack (with retouching if needed).

Bart, would you expand on this? How would you do the masking? Will Helicon stack 2 images that do not represent different focus slices? (the final stack). Could you show an example?

Kind regards - Hening

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 10:14:57 pm »

Helicon 6.0 is most of the time superior to PS according to my experience with landscape images.

Cheers,
Bernard

Torbjörn Tapani

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2014, 03:31:19 am »

I also use Zerene stacker. The author is a regular at http://photomacrography.net/forum/ and it seems to be a popular choice among that crowd.

Photoshop does not compare.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 04:38:29 am »

@ Bart, reply #1

>It can also help to use a clever workflow, e.g. first combine all detailed image parts, and then the blurred parts with other settings, and finally combine only the two stacked results in a final stack (with retouching if needed).

Bart, would you expand on this? How would you do the masking? Will Helicon stack 2 images that do not represent different focus slices? (the final stack). Could you show an example?

Hi Hening,

Helicon Focus offers several methods/algorithms to determine the best parts of a focus stack.

'Method A' is very good at maintaining color, contrast, and surface detail. However, it may occasionally have issues with occlusions and edges, leaving a somewhat halo like edge where the lens allowed to look a bit behind an edge (e.g. because the left and right side of the lens entrance pupil have a slightly different perspective, like looking while alternating with one's left and right eye closed).

'Method B' is very good at rendering textures on smooth surfaces, and can do a better job on sharp edge detail.

'Method C' is good at finding very complex edge and occlusion detail, but will alter contrast and tends to enhance the impression of glare.

So while Method A is my first preference with method B following closely, I may mix it with edges from method B or C.

The Pro/Premium versions have great retouching capability of the layer masks, but one can also export masked layers to Photoshop for further tweaking there. In Helicon Focus, on the Retouching tab, one can select any of the original layers to use as source for retouching certain areas of the image, but there is also a button called 'Use another output as source' which allows an alternative earlier rendering (different method or with different parameters) to be the source for copying. The source and destination image are shown side by side, so one can choose which looks better, and only paint in the better source areas.

It's easier to do than to explain, but the retouching functionality is very useful. It also allows to adjust the brightness of the area that will be copied, because both may have different original exposure, and the brush has a live preview to allow and match the required exposure level of the copy before actually copying. It's described here.

Alternatively, one can make several renderings, one optimized for edges, one for surfaces, and use these to make a new stack, if needed in Photoshop. However, the built-in HF functionality is very useful for fast retouching, because it can pull in any source image or earlier rendered result as source for retouching with little effort.

Zerene Stacker is also a very powerful tool, but it also cannot automatically solve the common issues around high contrast edges as demonstrated in this thread. Rik Littlefield is very knowledgeable about these things, and his Zerene Stacker software cannot do it either, unless one uses some tricks with mixing of multiple renderings. It will require manual retouching, which is relatively easy in HeliconFocus. When trying to beat physics, we occasionally still need to lend the software a helping hand ourselves.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. It can sometimes also help to create partially overlapping sub-stacks, e.g. a foreground/midrange/background stack, and stack those. What will work best and take the least effort is all very subject dependent. Stacking images from a microscope slide, or of an insect, or a still-life, or a landscape, all create different challenges. A bit of experience also goes a long way in preventing and solving issues.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 07:36:49 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 08:25:47 am »

Hi Bart,

thank you so much for this very extensive post. I looks like I have to study the Helicon doc in more detail, which seems to have expanded since I read it.

Good light - Hening.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 10:17:44 am »

Helicon 6.0 is most of the time superior to PS according to my experience with landscape images.
Cheers,
Bernard

+1

I have a nine-image stack of sand dunes imagery.  These are difficult to stack because the image is rich in tonality, but low in detail.  Typical dune material.  PS failed miserably and I blended it manually.  Eight layer masks.  Zero fun.

My trial of Helicon Focus nailed it first time.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 11:38:15 am »

I have a nine-image stack of sand dunes imagery.  These are difficult to stack because the image is rich in tonality, but low in detail.  Typical dune material.  PS failed miserably and I blended it manually.  Eight layer masks.  Zero fun.

My trial of Helicon Focus nailed it first time.

Hi Peter,

It does depend a bit on the subject, sometimes Photoshop can reach an acceptable result, but for more challenging subjects it requires a tool that offers more control, like Helicon Focus or Zerene Stacker. Attached is a downsampled version of an early 17 image trial I did more than 7 years ago as I was trying Helicon focus on an insect that I found in a dusty(!) corner of the room. It also shows that it can still produce a gradual OOF Depth of Field if needed, but more DOF (without diffraction blur) than possible with a single narrow aperture shot.

The same stack did finish in Photoshop, using huge amounts of menory, but with lower resolution and some edge artifacts around the hairs (inferior resampling quality and no control over the layers). Helicon Focus was very fast, and has become faster and better since. I've done stacks of more than 100 images, something I wouldn't even begin to consider with Photoshop.

Detailed landscape surface structures are other subjects that benefit from good resampling and stacking/blending quality.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 11:41:10 am by BartvanderWolf »
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bjanes

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 12:48:55 pm »

Attached is a downsampled version of an early 17 image trial I did more than 7 years ago as I was trying Helicon focus on an insect that I found in a dusty(!) corner of the room. It also shows that it can still produce a gradual OOF Depth of Field if needed, but more DOF (without diffraction blur) than possible with a single narrow aperture shot.

Bart,

That is an impressive image. With such a small subject, I presume that you used some type of focus rail to move the camera and lens setup in small increments. Was this done manually or with some type of automated motorized focus rail such as a Stackshot? I am interested in occasionally taking such a shot, but don't wish to invest in a motorized device. I do have a Kirk rack and pinion rail, but do not think it would have the required precision. Really Right Stuff makes a rail with a screw drive that advances 1.25 mm per revolution. Do you think this would suffice? What increment did you employ in your shot?

If others have ideas, please join the discussion.

Regards,

Bill
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 02:14:52 pm »

Hi,

I have both the RRS focusing rail and the Stackshot. I am not that impressed by the RRS. But really in magnified macro, everything is very sensitive. Touching anything changes focus. That is the reason I bought into the Stackshot. Didn't really have the opportunity to use it, though. Have some samples that I can post in the weekend.

I have an old Novoflex bellows, the focusing slider on that one is much better than the RRS product. So even if I like RRS, the focusing slider they have is something I would advise against.

Best regards
Erik




Bart,

That is an impressive image. With such a small subject, I presume that you used some type of focus rail to move the camera and lens setup in small increments. Was this done manually or with some type of automated motorized focus rail such as a Stackshot? I am interested in occasionally taking such a shot, but don't wish to invest in a motorized device. I do have a Kirk rack and pinion rail, but do not think it would have the required precision. Really Right Stuff makes a rail with a screw drive that advances 1.25 mm per revolution. Do you think this would suffice? What increment did you employ in your shot?

If others have ideas, please join the discussion.

Regards,

Bill
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Isaac

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 03:08:15 pm »

I am interested in occasionally taking such a shot…

You may be surprised how well things will turn out by simply moving focus-in with the lens focus ring, or zoom.

Of course, it depends on the reproduction ratio and aperture.
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bjanes

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 03:56:26 pm »

You may be surprised how well things will turn out by simply moving focus-in with the lens focus ring, or zoom.

Of course, it depends on the reproduction ratio and aperture.

From what I understand, using the focusing ring works well for relatively large scale macro shots, and, if one has an auto-focus lens, one can change focus precisely and in very small increments via software (such as with CamRanger or Nikon Control with Nikon lenses). However, for extreme closeups, it is best to use a specialized focus rail as outlined in this article that Bart referenced in a previous post. If one has a microscope that focuses by moving the stage, the insect could be positioned on the stage and focus achieved by moving the stage rather than the camera. Has anyone tried this?

Bill
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Isaac

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 04:28:00 pm »

I should also have said -- I may be surprised by how much sharper images are with your lens/camera :-)

However, for extreme closeups, it is best to use a specialized focus rail as outlined in this article that Bart referenced in a previous post.

The main point of that article seems to be that it's best not to use a focus rail for flowers. (The odd thing to me is the mini-tripod on the same support as the subject. Even when taped-down that never kept the camera steady when I tried it.)

Manual lens-ring focus for "Eye of Fruit fly" is not very helpfully listed as "varies!" -- if only I could find a dead-fly!
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 04:30:11 pm »

Bart,
That is an impressive image.
Regards,
Bill

Indeed.  Especially at that degree of magnification.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Helicon Focus VS Focus Stack/Blend Photoshop CS6
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 05:38:45 pm »

That is an impressive image. With such a small subject, I presume that you used some type of focus rail to move the camera and lens setup in small increments. Was this done manually or with some type of automated motorized focus rail such as a Stackshot? I am interested in occasionally taking such a shot, but don't wish to invest in a motorized device. I do have a Kirk rack and pinion rail, but do not think it would have the required precision. Really Right Stuff makes a rail with a screw drive that advances 1.25 mm per revolution. Do you think this would suffice? What increment did you employ in your shot?

Hi Bill,

If I recall correctly, I shot this manually with an RRS focus rail. The focus intervals were more or less estimated but based on earlier experiments with the MP-E 65mm lens used at f/8. Since that lens does not allow to record the magnification ratio it is set to, I'd have to guess it was probably somewhere close to 3:1. It's only much later that I got into shooting with the Stackshot rail, which allowed to get much more accurate and predictable, and fast despite having to deal with more slices.

For more moderate magnification ratios (and thus with deeper DOF), fewer slices are required and with AF lenses it is possible to use lens focusing (Live View and/or tethering helps) in many situations (sometimes it is preferable to re-focus instead of moving the camera+lens). The perfect solution would be to keep the entrance pupil stationary, and only move the sensor plane, but using a manual focus rail can still give good results if one pays a bit of attention to the details.

The software will compensate for magnification differences (caused by re-focusing, or shifting the camera+lens, or changing the lens to sensor extension) by resampling the images so that they align/register perfectly in the focus plane overlap. High quality resampling helps.

Cheers,
Bart
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