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Author Topic: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board  (Read 11404 times)

spacegrey

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Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« on: February 19, 2014, 12:20:40 pm »

What's the best way to mount textured fine art paper print onto board?
Spray? Pressure mounting? Dry mounting with heat press? Vacuum table?
I'm aware that this will not be considered archival, still need to be done for one of our project.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 02:53:43 pm »

I would look at the use of a dry mount press and consider Beinfang Ragmount.  Ragmount makes a excellent mount.  It's permanent unlike a Fusion mount. 

With paper I would stay with foam core.  Gator will work fine in a dry mount press but it does have formaldehyde and other nasty stuff.  There is a good chance long term and short term this may pass through and discolor the print. 

Gator with canvas I don't worry as much since the glue creates a barrier somewhat ( miracle muck).

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 03:54:41 pm »

Paul, I read Miracle Muck on Gator with textured paper will not be a good option?
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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 06:59:17 pm »

I would think not.  Paper will possibly not lay down as well as canvas either m muck as it's a pretty thick glue.  Similar to Elmer's white glue.  It would be hard to press the print down to get an even finish without damaged to the face of the print.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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elolaugesen

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 03:45:01 am »

Mounted many photo's, prints, original art,  etc over the years using both a dry mounting vacuum press and without.  No problem if you use the proper release board or paper.  do not slide anything across the glossy photo or any other work.   be careful.  watch the photos as they will not go on as well depending on the board it is being mounted on.  it shows when paper is too thin.  As for fine art paper of good thickness never had a problem.  I  have used basic glue, white glue, wet mounting glue, mat medium, and glue paper sheets then placed release paper/board on top, then a very thick heavy press wood)etc and more weights.  Works but only for heavy papers,etc.   Artists paint on anything they can lay their hands on.

cheers elo
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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 07:46:37 am »

I agree totally on the release board.  It's very critical to clean the board after each press to get any mounting material that had pressed out past the edge of the print. 

The board I used was by Larson and was in a light green color.


Paul C

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elolaugesen

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:48:30 am »

My light green release boards were purchased 14 years ago, box of 10 from Larson's in Toronto, Canada.  I now live in the UK.   still have a couple of release boards left.  Treat them right cut them in half for small jobs as they will get some indents if the materials being mounted (wood, canvas board, textured oil etc. is thick/hard.  Clean them carefully.  if Thick and hard art on board then do the largest art work first then  smaller pieces of art each time. One more thing.  If you use release paper watch out!!!    it has the same texture and feel  as the sheets of glue.  do not use the wrong one as a release paper.  (I did that once and the artist got a beautifully textured painting).  Lucky she was a good friend-and still is (Nancy Farrell in guelph, ontario).  Her next frame job was free.

cheers elo
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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 12:41:04 pm »

Thanks you all for great advice.
My paper is Hahnemuhle Torchon, pretty thick stuff
Looks like for now I'll cheap out and will use 3M 568 film adhesive on foam board
If I need to do more of those in the future may need to invest into some sort of heat press
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elolaugesen

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 03:57:23 am »

You may have a problem with the Torchon paper as it is very textured with an undulated surface parts that will/may never touch the board that you are mounting it on.  Therefore you will be lucky if 50% of surface/glue touches the paper/board.  Not a perfect choice of paper for mounting
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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 09:55:10 am »

You may have a problem with the Torchon paper as it is very textured with an undulated surface parts that will/may never touch the board that you are mounting it on.  Therefore you will be lucky if 50% of surface/glue touches the paper/board.  Not a perfect choice of paper for mounting

That's was exactly my concern when I started looking into this.
I'm thinking if Miracle Muck on gator-foam would be a better option?
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framah

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 10:06:57 am »

Thanks you all for great advice.
My paper is Hahnemuhle Torchon, pretty thick stuff
Looks like for now I'll cheap out and will use 3M 568 film adhesive on foam board
If I need to do more of those in the future may need to invest into some sort of heat press

 Forget using the 3M 568 or as we call it PMA...positional mounting adhesive. The strength of the adhesive is not enough to hold a thick, textured paper like that. It is meant for smaller things on way thinner paper than what you have. There is a reason they call it positional. The shear strength of this adhesive is too low to hold the movement of expansion and contraction of your thick paper from humidity changes.

Barely less worse (not better) than PMS is spraying.
Nasty, messy, smelly, gets all over everything and doesn't hold good enough.

Dry mounting is the easiest and most permanent. Try a small piece to see if the pressure of the press messes with the texture of the paper before committing to the good art.




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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 10:47:13 am »

Forget using the 3M 568 or as we call it PMA...positional mounting adhesive. The strength of the adhesive is not enough to hold a thick, textured paper like that. It is meant for smaller things on way thinner paper than what you have. There is a reason they call it positional. The shear strength of this adhesive is too low to hold the movement of expansion and contraction of your thick paper from humidity changes.

Barely less worse (not better) than PMS is spraying.
Nasty, messy, smelly, gets all over everything and doesn't hold good enough.

Dry mounting is the easiest and most permanent. Try a small piece to see if the pressure of the press messes with the texture of the paper before committing to the good art.

Framah, thanks for advice, what in your opinion would be second best option?
I don't think I have enough time to get dry mounting figured out for this job.
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framah

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 12:32:16 pm »

Think about this for a minute... Some of the responses talk about how the roughness or unevenness of the paper will not allow Miracle muck to work, etc.
If the paper is THAT rough and uneven, how does it go thru an ink jet printer? Based on what other people on here are saying, i would conclude that the paper would encounter multiple head strikes or scuffs, making it nearly impossible to print upon.

The paper CAN'T be THAT rough and uneven so when we look at Hahnemuhle's description of the paper, we see that that is actually the case:

Hahnemuhle Torchon Paper 285gsm - 0.50mm - 97.5 whiteness - 99.0 opacity - with optical brighteners - bright natural white - acid free - watercolor paper - Hahnemuhle Torchon has a smooth marble like texture - archival quality - age resistant paper - especially suited for reproductions of oil, watercolor and pastel paintings.

Smooth enough so it can be printed on and thus smooth enough to be mounted using Miracle Muck and then weighted till it is dry, and the weighting won't compress the texture either.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:34:57 pm by framah »
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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 12:45:41 pm »

Framah, thank you, that's a great answer.

It sucks that you got a buyer for that heat press already :)
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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 12:56:24 pm »

Miracle Muck will work, that's not my issue with, it's trying to get all the air out once you lay the print down.  It's hard enough to press it out manually on canvas, which is much much more durable (i.e. coated canvas).  You will have to use a pretty strong cover sheet when you attempt it.  Not sure how large your prints are, I was assuming 20 x 30 or larger.  MM will be easier to handle on smaller prints. 

Still not sure how it will dry in that MM which is water based may work into the back of the print and create small spots that raise up. 

It's very hard to lay down MM evenly, I use a foam roller and it's still a bit un-even at times but with Canvas, (much thicker material than paper) it's easy to press out and get a even surface.

I would sure try it on a smaller print first. 

Also still would lead with the Beinfang ragmount, if you can find a drymount press to use. 

Paul C.
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Paul Caldwell
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framah

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 03:49:56 pm »

I have to ask you, Paul...
have you ever used this paper? I haven't but based on all of the other papers I have handled that go thru an inkjet printer, only the front side has the texture and the back is still flat.
Remember that it needs to  be smooth enough on the back for the vacuum to hold it flat while it prints. If it was as irregular as you  think, the machine wouldn't be able to create a vacuum.
When the paper is made, the press would only have the texture on the top side and the bottom press would be smooth.
I think this paper is not as bumpy and lumpy as you think.
Maybe Spacegrey can help us here.

I'd love to see this paper sometime. I can see one of my "misty artists" loving this stuff.
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spacegrey

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 04:09:13 pm »

Framah, even though the back of it s not as bumpy as the front it's still somewhat bumpy.
PM me your address if you'd like and I'll send a sample, I have cutouts from the the roll laying around.
Here are some pics of the Hahn papers, not sure if FB will allow you to see it though:
https://www.facebook.com/tatiana.kl.3/media_set?set=a.626643380736603.1073741829.100001728396257&type=3
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bill t.

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 05:07:56 pm »

If you need to dry mount a rough surfaced media, one approach is to pile up 2 or 3 sheets of Fusion 4000 tissue on top of each other to fill in the valleys.  Unlike regular dry mount tissue Fusion 4000 does not have a paper substrate, it's 100% the sticky part only.  Even if you pile up a rather uneven, ragged looking stacks of Fusion 4000 it all kind of evens out under the press.  It's the self-leveling dry mount tissue, tidiness is optional.

Whatever method your choose, first make a test piece with a reject print, then try to tear it up off the substrate.  That will quickly tell you how good a bond you are getting.

I have recently been gluing coated fine art papers to Gator with excellent results.  However, there are issues with the paper temporarily rippling from the wet glue which makes it difficult to adhere the very edges.  There are techniques to get around that, but it takes practice.  While I would recommend gluing fine art papers in the long term your first attempts are likely to fail.  FWIW I have examples of silver prints wall-papered to Masonite with Elmer's White Glue.  After more than 40 years they are still perfectly attached with no apparent chemical degradation.
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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 07:23:26 pm »

Framah,

I have not tried to mount that particular paper, with muck, but have tried a few others, Optica 1, Arches, and Canson Platine.  All smaller prints, and none really went down very well.  I was not using a vacuum/press but trying to get it to work with the method I use with canvas/gator and muck.  Just didn't end up very well, but like you point out the other paper may work fine.

Paul

 
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Paul Caldwell
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framah

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Re: Mounting textured fine art print to foam or gator board
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2014, 09:39:05 am »

I like how we all can learn something. 
Thanks space.. I'll PM you today.
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