Focusing with Live view on Linhof Techno

[rogerxnz]

I have read of the problems of focusing wide angle lenses on the Techno's ground glass screen but I prefer the Techno to a pancake camera because of the greater tilt ability.

I would have thought the live view feature on the Credo and IQ backs would overcome the focusing problem.

Does anyone besides Torger use a Techno? Does anyone have experience focusing wide-angle lenses on a Techno using the current live view feature?

Your comments would be appreciated.
Roger

[torger]

The problem with the CCD live views is the slow update rate and the narrow light conditions they work. If you work in a studio it can be useful, but if you work in the field you cannot rely on it.

I'd say the ground glass focusing challenge is generally a bit exaggerated though. Get the Linhof/Silvestri 12x loupe and the new bright ground glass and practice a bit, shoot f/11 and you'll be safe. With the Credo you have fast 100% focus check too so you can quickly check if you nailed it if you get uncertain.

Wide angles are not necessarily harder than longer lenses to focus, but they're harder to see into corners.

[gebseng]

I have been using a Techno for 4 years now, almost exclusively for outdoor/indoor architecture. For most of that time, I used a Leaf Valeo or Aptus back, tethered to a macbook air for live preview, that worked really well for composition and focussing.

A couple of weeks ago I got a new Credo 40 back, and in my opinion focussing works really well too with the Credo's internal live view, although the screen is much smaller now of course. In sunny situations, or simply to get a better view, I use a Hoodman HoodLoupe H32 3.2  for a brighter image.

Sure, you have to develop a certain technique of rapid small focus changes, followed by waiting 1 or 2 seconds, to deal with the slow framerate. I also use a Variable ND filter mounted on a Linhof filter holder, because live view will not work under outdoor/daylight conditions otherwise. I have to swing out the ND after composing/focussing, that takes about 5sec.

If you're able to live with these limitations, I think that Credo/IQ live view gives you perfectly sharp results with the Techno, even with the lens wide open (I use the SK 5.6/28mm and the SK 5.6/35 mostly).

best,

Gebhard

[torger]

Roger, listen to Gebhard. I have not actually used live view but is citing what many other say about it and facts I know.

It's the same with ground glass, many say it's impossible to use, and I say it's perfectly okay. It's much about finding your technique with it and practice and then you can make it work.

CCD live view will be disappointing if you've used to a Canon live view, and that may be such a big turnoff that you just say "it's impossible" before trying to get it work. Looking at the dim ground glass with a SK35XL for the first time can give a similar reaction.

But when you work with it, learn to handle the limitations, you can get to a working solution. When thinking about it I've actually heard a couple of others that also use the limited CCD live view successfully out in the field with techniques Gebhard describe.

The thing is that view camera like the Techno and Arca-Swiss MF-two is not very strongly represented in the US, and thus not on the big forums, here it's mostly about pancake cameras and they can be focused without ground glass or live view, so there's not much discussion about it.

I think I would prefer ground glass focusing even if I had CCD live view directly in the back like in a Credo, as I've become quite good at it, and I appreciate the fast update rate . I think I need CMOS live view before I'd switch. But some do get CCD to work to a satisfactory level.

Note that I would not trust ground glass focusing for wide open focusing though, I say that f/11 is the safe limit. On my review page I have a lengthy discussion concerning focus precision, together with experiments. As my shooting style is such that I never shoot wide open except possibly in closeups (with short DoF focusing wide open is okay) that's fine by me. But as Gebhard points out the CCD live view provides the advantage that you get enough precision for wide open focusing.

[tjv]

I have used a Techno for a little over a year and love it. I bought it so could ease into a 100% digital workflow and had planned to buy a P65+ but somehow got sidetracked and bought an Imacon 949 instead… I use it with 90mm and 55mm digital lenses and the results are superb. I still plan to buy the digital back plus lenses to cover my preferred focal lengths, but I'm in no rush – the results I get from scanning 6x7cm negs vs. 4x5" negs are better as the lenses I'm using are better than my LF ones. I shoot a lot of 4x5", but never for the extra detail. I'd have to print optically or buy a very good drum scanner for that. Drum scanner operators are useless in NZ. The results I get from them are so variable and expensive I'd rather do it myself.

As for GG focussing, I haven't shot with < 40mm digital lenses on a 645 chip. I love the process of using the Techno. A key factor in buying it was that I wanted to maintain my LF workflow. I like GG focussing and use a 12x loupe from Linhof Studio (where I got my camera). Honestly, for the way I shoot I can't see it being a problem when I do make the switch. Like Torger, I like to shoot with smaller apertures anyway.

[RobertJ]

tjv, are you saying that 6x7 with digital lenses gives you better results than 4x5? 

I thought of doing the same thing a while ago, but figured it was a dumb idea.

What apertures do you shoot at and what lenses do you shoot with in 4x5?  Just curious.

[tjv]

Hi T–1000.

I think that for the workflow that I employ, particularly using my Imacon 949 and the resolutions it scans at for 6x7cm vs. 4x5", I think the quality is essentially the same. I'm sure if I owned a drum scanner and was as good at operating it as the guys that write for On Landscape (Tim Parkin, etc,) then I'd see some benefit in shooting 4x5" in the detail and tonality department. Optical printing would no doubt further emphasise the difference. Trouble is, shooting sheet film introduces a whole lot of other problems. For one it's hard to keep film flat in the holders, especially in variable temperatures. Also, wind vibrations etc. are a lot harder to manage with a bigger camera. And I won't forget to mention the cost to process sheet film where I live is insane, and the results inconsistent at best...

On my Techno, I shoot using a 55mm Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital and 90mm Rodenstock HR Digaron–W, mostly at f11 or f16. On my Technika, I use a 90mm MC f8 Super–Angulon and a 150mm Nikkor–W. The 90mm isn't the sharpest lens ever made, but the Nikkor is fine. I shoot them mostly at f22, very occasionally wide open. The digital lenses are markedly better when examining fine details of negatives. To freeze motion, I usually have to use 400 Portra with the 4x5", but can shoot 160 Portra when shooting 6x7cm.

The other advantage of the Techno is that the movements are a heck of a lot more flexible and the gears (my Technika has none, bar the ratcheted front rise,) far more accurate. It's FAR easier to dial in appropriate tilt etc to get the desired DOF. Also, the GG is far finer, brighter and more contrasty than the one on my Technika – which is a current series GG and fresnel made by Linhof and bought brand new to replace the original, which was badly scratched when I bought the camera. I use a 12x loupe from Linhof Studio.

All in all, buying the Techno was one of the best decisions I ever made. I feel like I've lost nothing in the way of quality moving down formats, and gained a lot in the way of movements and general pleasure when using the camera. (Note though that I only shoot colour negative, mostly at the speeds mentioned above.)

Looking forward to bolting a digital back on the beast soon.

[torger]

Very interesting report on a film use case with the Techno!

[buckshot]

Another regular Techno user here. Ah, the e-myth of the impossibility of groundglass focussing in the digital age ... which originally seems to have arisen from folks jumping across from 5x7 or 8x10 with their 4x loupes. They stuck a DB on their old Tachihara, Chamonix or whatever (i.e. view cameras with un-geared movements and dim groundglass) - and discovered they couldn't nail focus. Or, more correctly - they could, but that focus in the digital age is less forgiving than in the film era, and where they were used to putting it wasn't good enough.

With modern iterations like the Techno (or equivalent), using the correct loupe (10x or above) and a modicum of practice … it's not difficult to do - really, it isn't - even with wide-angle lenses - you just learn how they behave very quickly. Groundglass composition/focussing is, in my opinion, a much more pleasurable user expereince than looking through some over-priced distorting external viewfinder (for an approximate view / composition) and then taking out your builder's disto and pointing it at something in order to know where to set the focus ring at. But, that's just me - others seem to like this.

Jim

[Gigi]

+1 for Torger and Buckshot.

Not only is GG good for focusing with a 12X lupe, but at f11, for landscapes, you can set it up for hyperfocal and infinity, and just bang away. And if necessary, you can make slight tweaks for moderate foregrounds just working the focus adjustment and checking on screen. Sometimes 4-5 shots is a lot easier and faster than using the GG and the sliding back or taking the DB on/off. Of course, if you want pure precision, then fall back to the GG.

[RobertJ]

I don't get people who use 4x loupes even with 4x5 and 8x10.  It just doesn't work.

I use a 15x loupe with 4x5/8x10 and it definitely makes a difference.  I can imagine it would be ideal with a digital back as well.

[torger]

I have personally not used the Linhof Studio / Silvestri 12x loupe yet, I have it on order since september but Silvestri has trouble delivering it by some unknown reason. Last time I asked Paula at Linhof Studio there's 80 people waiting to get one, and the delivery time is still unknown.

Meanwhile I can recommend a good quality jewelry loupe, removing the folding part and attach a base. I use a 20x Belomo, and I've done formalized testing comparing it to a 10x loupe and for me the difference is real - I'd say a high magnification loupe is necessary to get focusing right (people with very good eyes and skill might do it with lower magnification though, I think my eyes (I have glasses) and skill is pretty average):
(look in section "Focus precision test" at http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/photography/linhof-techno-review.html)

The Silvestri 10x is more like a 6x-8x though, loupe magnification is unfortunately not something that is well-defined. Before I got my 20x Belomo I got a 30x loupe that had less magnification than the Silvestri 10x! I think I've heard that the Linhof Studio/Silvestri 12x loupe is significantly stronger than the Silvestri 10x, ie more than the magnification factor suggests.

My 20x is probably a little bit overkill, so I expect the 12x to be a good balance.

Note that when you get a high magnification loupe it's very very important that you tune the loupe base height (with layers of tape or something if the loupe lacks focusing mechanism) so you focus exactly at the ground glass grain. The depth of field of these high magnification loupes is less than 1 mm. A slight mis-focus of the loupe will make focus peaking much more difficult.

The high magnification loupes have very small field of view, ie they're only useful for critical focusing at a specific point, not for getting an overview of the composition. I think it's fine to use the unmagnified ground glass for composition, but some might prefer a 4x loupe (like Linhof provides) for that.

[mmbma]

The live view on the IQ backs are useless for focusing IMO. Doens't work in the sun, small screen, etc. Just compose, focus to an approximate, and then check the picking using the built in focus mask. That works really well. The areas in focus would be in flashing highlight. This sounds more complicated but it is really rather simple, much more so than using a Loupe/groundglass

I don't have a techno but I use this technique on my Alpas, never had an issue

[tjv]

The Linhof Studio 12x loupe is really very good. I don't know what the wait is, but I believe you will find it worth the wait.

The Silvestri 10x loupe I used to use was, to put it bluntly, crap. Way too fussy in terms of eye placement and too much distortion. I used to squint and rub my eyes endlessly when using it, I just found it unbearable in the field, especially in low light. With the new 12x loupe, I never have any problems.

I forgot to mention too that I don't use the Linhof GG or fresnel, but the Silvestri GG with integrated fresnel. I love it and wonder if there would be any benefit in getting the new, bright Linhof screen to replace it – I'd have to wait until I buy a digital back, because I don't think it covers the 6x7cm frame?

I've been thinking a lot about the different technical camera offerings and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't part with my Techno for love nor money, but I'm sure it wouldn't suit everyone. It'll be interesting to see how the new breed of backs with CMOS and live view develop, because with accurate focus peaking and sharp detail on the LCD, cameras like the Techno would be even more appealing.

[OrleyD]

After using a Linhof Techno for over a year, I find it to be very manageable both in the studio and field.  First a little background on me, I'm 67, nearly blind in the left eye, lens implants in both eyes, retina repair and floaters in right eye which is corrected to 20/20.  Focusing was a big concern when I took the step to buy another view camera, but I have found a workflow that works great, even on a beach in the Caribbean at high noon.  Just got back, will post a couple shots later if anyone is interested.

Gear:   Linhof Techno, IQ 280, Linhof short sliding back, Linhof new bright screen, a Hoodman 1x Loope teathered to the tripod, and a Silvestri 12x loope around my neck and an Iphone 5S running the Mark II Artist's Viewfinder app and a Schneider Super Wide Aux lens if needed for wide shots.


Workflow:

1.  Scout the scene to find 'the' shot with the Iphone 5s
2.  Set up the shot, use the hoodman to rough foucus and compose
3.  Dial in focus with the 12x loope.
4.  Shoot a test shot - IQ 280 back - focus warning on - highlight warning on
5.  Check preview to verify focus and check exposure
6.  Go to live view to adjust composition if needed
7.  Shoot the final

The results are razor sharp images with all my lenses from a 32 mm Rodenstock to 210 Schneider.

In the studio, live view works ok for focus check but is really slow compared to using the 12x.  Images are so sharp they are stunning.

So, I can attest that even a nearly blind man can focus on GG in the sunlight with a couple tools.

Orley

[rogerxnz]

Thank you, everyone, for your very informative replies.

Now, I just have to find a used Techno outfit!
Roger

[Atina]

I'd like to see those examples of the Caribbean beach at high noon. 

[OrleyD]

This DropBox link will provide access to 2 shots, one of a palm tree at noon, the other of a Porsche in the studio, both focused using the same technique.

There is a 16 bit tiff of both, processed with very little adjustment in C1, a downsized .jpeg, and the raw files.

Orley
https://www.dropbox.com/l/evtxqCySbpJrmuaAd8qqob?

[Ken Doo]

I don't have great eyes, but they are corrected to 20/15 with contacts---certainly not as challenged as Orley's!  But regardless, I still find using the rear LCD (even though the IQ MFDB screens are great) at times still challenging.  If you have a USB3 enabled MFDB (Phase IQ or Credo), tethering to a Microsoft Surface Pro 2 tablet is a great alternative.  Small form factor and the ability to view full resolution 80 megapixel RAW files on location, zooming into 100% viewing (or more) with just a double-tap.  I use this solution with a Cambo, but it seems to me this would work well with the Techno platform too.

I'm really excited about this new tethering option.  You can read about my review on Capture Integration's website blog, or on my blog here:  http://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/microsofts-surface-pro-2-a-game-changer-for-phase-one-iq-series-and-leaf-credo-medium-format-digital-backs/

ken