Same ICC display profile, Different results between Windows & OSX

[BYUCougar]

Fellow LLer's

I'm hoping someone smarter than me can help here...I'm stumped-

I'm running Mavericks OSX as well as Windows 8 on my home computer (newly-built Hackintosh).  

Using a Colormunki and the Xrite software I get spot-on results in Windows on my Dell 3014.  However, on the OSX side, my ICC profiles create a washed out image.  Even if I copy the Windows generated ICC profile over to OSX, I get the washed-out effect, which is baffling to me, as I was under the impression that ICCs were universal across platforms.

I have even tried a different video card, with the same results.

Also, I've tried Argyll CMS with no success.

At this point, I have no idea which direction to go.  It seems that that color management software in OSX (Colorsync) is interpreting the profile differently.  

My last though is to try a different Colorimeter (Spyder 4) to see if that does the trick.

Thoughts?

[Scott Martin]

I was under the impression that ICCs were universal across platforms.

They're not necessarily compatible on different machines using the same OS! Or on two different video cards on the same machine.

What connection method are you connecting to the display? VGA, Displayport, DVI, etc.

The Munki is excellent. Why not calibrate with the Munki software on both Mac and Windows? Trying to use the same profile on both OSes is a fun, academic experiment though... I like the idea.

[Mac Mahon]

If I understand you correctly, you're comparing the way an image looks on one machine and monitor, when it's rendered through either Mac OS or Windows 8.  Same monitor, same video hardware, same data, same ICC profile. It would seem logical to expect same outcome assuming the s/w programs you're using to output the image are also the same, or at least both colour managed. 

I suspect your image viewing application(s).

Lightroom?  Photoshop? in both cases? or different media browsers?  Not all media browsers are properly colour managed AFAIK, neither (spectacularly) are all web browsers.

[BYUCougar]

Thanks for the replies,

You are correct, same monitor, same video card, same profiling software (both Argyll and Colormunki software), only the OS is different. And the good ICC created in Windows does not translate into a good profile in OSX.  I'm using a DVI connection.

The colors are noticeably off in all programs and a Measurement report in DispCalGUI confirms this.  The report indicates that several colors have a delta >6.

The only clue that I have is that Argyll is giving me the following notice during calibration:

dispcal: Warning - new_dispwin: frame buffer depth 8 != GammaTable depth 10

Not sure what this means, and haven't been  able to find much online.

Ill test the Spyder Pro 4 tomorrow.  Keeping my fingers crossed...

[Scott Martin]

Taking a monitor profile cross platform seems more like a fun hypothesis that's now been proven false.

Why not just run the Munki software on the Mac, calibrate it and be done with it? Or run Windows in Virtual PC or Parallels where it will use the profile correctly?

[BYUCougar]

Scott,

I wish I could solve the issue so easily . When I run the Colormunki software in OSX, it runs through the motions, like everything is fine, but when the profile loads at the end, the colors get all washed out.   It seems the problem affects the Colormunki and DispCalc/Argyll software equally.

I'm running Windows and Mac on separate hard drives (not virtually).  If worse comes to worse, the virtual option would be a possibility. Thanks again for the help.

[D Fosse]

As long as the hardware is the same, the calibration LUT to the monitor should be the same. Different video cards would probably make a difference.

As for the profile itself (the icc profile describing the monitor in its calibrated state), that is the application's responsibility. The application converts from the source profile to the display profile. Windows stays completely out of the way here and does nothing, it only makes the profiles available for the apps. In Mac OS X you have this thing called ColorSync (no equivalent in Windows) that could possibly interfere and muck things up.

It could also be that the profile is simply not loaded in either OS. That happens.

In the Adobe Lightroom forum there was an issue recently, where Mavericks users complained about washed out shadows in the Develop module - not dramatic, but noticeable. It affected all calibrators, but not pre-Mavericks OS X, and not Windows. Photoshop reports were mixed and inconclusive (possibly related to GPU processing on or off). The general consensus boiled down to OS X 10.9 bug, and bug reports were sent.

Have you tried the Dell hardware calibrator? (Would require i1 Display Pro sensor however). But that should rule out the calibration LUT, since it would be loaded into the monitor and take the video card out of the equation.

[Scott Martin]

When I run the Colormunki software in OSX, it runs through the motions, like everything is fine, but when the profile loads at the end, the colors get all washed out. 

Ahhh - I see! So the problem isn't with the profile then. Could there be a lack of video card support on the Mac side? Perhaps it's not able to load the LUTs on a unsupported video card? Are you using the Dell Monitor calibration software on Windows? Are all of the hardware controls (contrast, gamma, RGB, etc) zeroed out to the native settings?

[digitaldog]

ICC profiles are cross platform, but that doesn't mean you should <g>. That is, for output profiles, no issues. For a display profile, you really need to build one specifically for the OS/hardware etc. I'd never build a display profile and use it anywhere but the specific conditions in which it was built. So if I understand you, you're using one piece of hardware but two OS's, I'd still build a profile for each. I can't fathom that Apple would do anything but differently  . Profile under that condition.

[Scott Martin]

you're using one piece of hardware but two OS's, I'd still build a profile for each. I can't fathom that Apple would do anything but differently  . Profile under that condition.

But what he's saying is that he can't. When he tried to profile under MacOS it fails. Sounds like perhaps the LUT isn't loading and it could be due the use of unsupported hardware on his Hackintosh.

[BYUCougar]

Guys,

Very good points, and I had the same concerns re: the video card.  However, my computer is using an Intel I7 processor, the same processor in a OEM Mac.  These processors have onboard video cards built into the processor.  So the hardware should be the same here as well.  When I use the on-board video card, I get the same results

I was doing a little digging last night, and saw this release from X-rite:

http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=1913&Action=Support&SupportID=5727

Looks like there may be a potential firmware issue with Colormunki when used with Mavericks.  I will update the firmware tonight, and see if I have any success.  I will also try out the Spyder 4 tonight......working through a process of elimination at this point, but I should be able to confirm or eliminate the colorimeter as the problem.

Good to be able to bounce this off folks who understand this CM stuff.   

[BYUCougar]

As for the profile itself (the icc profile describing the monitor in its calibrated state), that is the application's responsibility. The application converts from the source profile to the display profile. Windows stays completely out of the way here and does nothing, it only makes the profiles available for the apps. In Mac OS X you have this thing called ColorSync (no equivalent in Windows) that could possibly interfere and muck things up.

It could also be that the profile is simply not loaded in either OS. That happens.

In the Adobe Lightroom forum there was an issue recently, where Mavericks users complained about washed out shadows in the Develop module - not dramatic, but noticeable. It affected all calibrators, but not pre-Mavericks OS X, and not Windows. Photoshop reports were mixed and inconclusive (possibly related to GPU processing on or off). The general consensus boiled down to OS X 10.9 bug, and bug reports were sent.

Very interesting...ColorSync may be the ultimate culprit.  If the alternate hardware tonight/firmware upgrade doesn't do the trick, it would seem the problem exists with the way the OSX (Colorsync) is interpreting/applying the profile.

...still seems strange that Argyll is able to create a profile in OSX, but then when the profile is tested via the DispCalGui measurement report in OSX, the report shows significant variances. 

 

[Tony Jay]

Very interesting thread.
I have nothing inspirational to add but will be fascinated to see the outcome and solution here.

Tony Jay

[Wayne Fox]

From your original post this appears to be a PC hacked to be a Mac?  The Mac OS only has support for video cards in Macs, seems a distinct possibility it doesn’t work right with this setup.

[BYUCougar]

From your original post this appears to be a PC hacked to be a Mac?  The Mac OS only has support for video cards in Macs, seems a distinct possibility it doesn’t work right with this setup.

Always a possibility I guess.  Although, the i7 video card is the same hardware in the Mac.  (basically Intel builds the video card into the processor chip).   

[Scott Martin]

Always a possibility I guess.  Although, the i7 video card is the same hardware in the Mac.  (basically Intel builds the video card into the processor chip).  

Goto AppleMenu>AboutThisMac>MoreInfo>Display and tell us what you see.

On my quad core i7 rMBP it reads "NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024 MB graphics" when I'm connect to an external display and "Intel HD Graphics 4000" when I'm just using the built in display. So this tells you precisely what hardware it's using for which display.

[BYUCougar]

 

Goto AppleMenu>AboutThisMac>MoreInfo>Display and tell us what you see.

On my quad core i7 rMBP it reads "NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024 MB graphics" when I'm connect to an external display and "Intel HD Graphics 4000" when I'm just using the built in display. So this tells you precisely what hardware it's using for which display.

I'll check this tonight.  In your case, the Intel 4000 is the built in card on the Intel Ivy Bridge (previous generation) i7 processor.  The GeForce 650 would be a seperate/discrete graphics card.  Two seperate video cards i believe.

[BYUCougar]

We'll guys, thanks for all the help.  A fresh install of OSX and a firmware update did the trick.  I was able to calibrate with the Colormunki/X-Rite software and confirmed the accuracy via DispCalGUI.  The process was a little more than I expected, but I got a crash course in ICC profiles, learned to use Argyll, and found this forum. Good deal.  Also interesting to learn that the same ICC profile doesn't necessarily behave the same order different OS, even with the same hardware.

Thanks again.

[Scott Martin]

Wait! Does the same profile now work under both OSes?

[Scott Martin]

You've in a such a unique position to tell us - does the same profile now work under both OSes?